HIRED!
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It's great that people are getting hired, but there's a whole lot more negative news going on, and Yankee thinks that should be ignored. That was my point--show some empathy to those people that are getting the shaft. And don't downplay the sh*tstorms that are taking place in the industry right now--someday it might be you!!
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Understood, but that's the whole point of sharing GOOD news isn't it? With the current economic condition being what it is, we've heard a LOT more of the bad than we have of the good.
As someone who is currently busting my ass... and my bank... to try to make it into the cockpit of an airliner one day, I, for one, am more pleased to hear the "up" side of things than the virtual avalanch of bad news that has been the aviation world over the past two years (and then some).
Believe me - I feel for you and your family. I know what it's like to be in a household with no money, but don't you think your rebuffage was a tad harsh?
Nobody wants Delta/UAL/American Airlines/ACA, etc. pilots on the street - that's the WORST thing a potential pilot wants to hear!
But, to be verbally beat down when that same pilot hears of GOOD news... well, lets just say that there neeeds to be some understanding on both sides of the street.
Can you live with that?
R2F
It's great that people are getting hired, but there's a whole lot more negative news going on, and Yankee thinks that should be ignored. That was my point--show some empathy to those people that are getting the shaft. And don't downplay the sh*tstorms that are taking place in the industry right now--someday it might be you!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Understood, but that's the whole point of sharing GOOD news isn't it? With the current economic condition being what it is, we've heard a LOT more of the bad than we have of the good.
As someone who is currently busting my ass... and my bank... to try to make it into the cockpit of an airliner one day, I, for one, am more pleased to hear the "up" side of things than the virtual avalanch of bad news that has been the aviation world over the past two years (and then some).
Believe me - I feel for you and your family. I know what it's like to be in a household with no money, but don't you think your rebuffage was a tad harsh?
Nobody wants Delta/UAL/American Airlines/ACA, etc. pilots on the street - that's the WORST thing a potential pilot wants to hear!
But, to be verbally beat down when that same pilot hears of GOOD news... well, lets just say that there neeeds to be some understanding on both sides of the street.
Can you live with that?
R2F
[ QUOTE ]
Doug, Sorry if you didn't like my response, but I'm tired of watching you try to make a negative about everything that happens here..
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YankeeOne:
I think if you spend some time and re-read anything I've had to say about in this particular forum, I really haven't said anything specifically here that I haven't said in any other forum. In fact, publically or privately, if there's a specific sentence, quote or posting that you feel was exhaustively negative, let me know and I'll be more than willing to retract or reinforce what I've said.
To be quite frank, it'd be idiotic for me to hold my own alma mater's (ERAU) feet to the fire and pussyfoot around the other forums to make sure I don't upset anyone. I've even held one of my major advertisers (and I do mean major) feet to the fire a few times and things have gotten cleared up.
I did a search through the posts on the database and I think I've been fair and equitable to Comair, or Delta Connection Academy just as I've been to other flight schools. If you feel this is incorrect, please feel free to point it out to me and I'll certainly clear it up or give apology where due.
If I didn't "call it the way I see it", this website, especially the Flight School-specific forums would be nothing more than an extension of the Air Inc "Ten trillion cockpit jobs are going unfilled TODAY!" flotsam.
In my personal and professional opinion, unbalanced "glee" about the state of aviation profession is extremely detrimental to everyone, including those trying to work their way because then (and I'm not accusing Comair Academy in any way, shape, or form of this) every Tom, Dick and Harry pops up with a "get hired quick" scam to seperate starry eyed potential aviators away from their dollars.
To reiterate, re-read the italicized statement in the above paragraph. Last thing I need is more hate mail mixed in with my Nigerian and Viagra spam.
The comment about "...not enjoying your access..." was in response to the "village wanting their idiot back" comment. That was personal and I'll bet you a case of your favorite beer that any other webmaster would have cut your access on the spot ***without question***.
If you're tired of my candor, I'd like to say I'm sorry but I can't! that's just the way I am! A little humor mixed in with some sarcasm, mixed in with a dash of guarded optimism, folded in with a bit of skepticism is what the website is all about.
I hate to say it again because it got me embroiled into a laborous weeklong thread-busting flame war, but I've been there, seen that, bought the T-shirt and have a closet full of empty snake oil bottles to prove it.
Once again, if there's something I've said that mischaracterizes or misleads people or extraordinarily negative, please let me know and I'll review.
Doug, Sorry if you didn't like my response, but I'm tired of watching you try to make a negative about everything that happens here..
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YankeeOne:
I think if you spend some time and re-read anything I've had to say about in this particular forum, I really haven't said anything specifically here that I haven't said in any other forum. In fact, publically or privately, if there's a specific sentence, quote or posting that you feel was exhaustively negative, let me know and I'll be more than willing to retract or reinforce what I've said.
To be quite frank, it'd be idiotic for me to hold my own alma mater's (ERAU) feet to the fire and pussyfoot around the other forums to make sure I don't upset anyone. I've even held one of my major advertisers (and I do mean major) feet to the fire a few times and things have gotten cleared up.
I did a search through the posts on the database and I think I've been fair and equitable to Comair, or Delta Connection Academy just as I've been to other flight schools. If you feel this is incorrect, please feel free to point it out to me and I'll certainly clear it up or give apology where due.
If I didn't "call it the way I see it", this website, especially the Flight School-specific forums would be nothing more than an extension of the Air Inc "Ten trillion cockpit jobs are going unfilled TODAY!" flotsam.
In my personal and professional opinion, unbalanced "glee" about the state of aviation profession is extremely detrimental to everyone, including those trying to work their way because then (and I'm not accusing Comair Academy in any way, shape, or form of this) every Tom, Dick and Harry pops up with a "get hired quick" scam to seperate starry eyed potential aviators away from their dollars.
To reiterate, re-read the italicized statement in the above paragraph. Last thing I need is more hate mail mixed in with my Nigerian and Viagra spam.
The comment about "...not enjoying your access..." was in response to the "village wanting their idiot back" comment. That was personal and I'll bet you a case of your favorite beer that any other webmaster would have cut your access on the spot ***without question***.
If you're tired of my candor, I'd like to say I'm sorry but I can't! that's just the way I am! A little humor mixed in with some sarcasm, mixed in with a dash of guarded optimism, folded in with a bit of skepticism is what the website is all about.
I hate to say it again because it got me embroiled into a laborous weeklong thread-busting flame war, but I've been there, seen that, bought the T-shirt and have a closet full of empty snake oil bottles to prove it.
Once again, if there's something I've said that mischaracterizes or misleads people or extraordinarily negative, please let me know and I'll review.
AirborneMedic_ANGa10
New Member
R2F,
Look we both have valid points here.
1) I never said sharing good news isn't allowed--like I said it's great.
2)There's nothing harsh about my response--the reality of the situation is what's harsh.
3)I didn't have a problem with Yankee sharing the news of his colleagues' relative success in getting hired--I said it before--it's great news.
4)I did have a problem with Yankee's apathetic attitude towards the real overall situation, and his viewpoint that Doug is just trying to be negative.
5)I'm just trying to add some raw realism to the situation. What I shared is what's really happening to many families in the airline industry. I just want people to realize that the overall situation in the industry <font color="red"> sucks </font> right now, and that there is a whole lot of bad stuff happening out there.
6)Everybody should remember that any one of us could be in the shoes of my father, having flown professionally for 33 years, 55.5 years old, and contemplating whether all of the sacrifices are going to pay off. I'm not trying to tell a 'poor me' sob story...I'm just trying to illustrate the facts. I believe that's what Doug is trying to do as well.
Look we both have valid points here.
1) I never said sharing good news isn't allowed--like I said it's great.
2)There's nothing harsh about my response--the reality of the situation is what's harsh.
3)I didn't have a problem with Yankee sharing the news of his colleagues' relative success in getting hired--I said it before--it's great news.
4)I did have a problem with Yankee's apathetic attitude towards the real overall situation, and his viewpoint that Doug is just trying to be negative.
5)I'm just trying to add some raw realism to the situation. What I shared is what's really happening to many families in the airline industry. I just want people to realize that the overall situation in the industry <font color="red"> sucks </font> right now, and that there is a whole lot of bad stuff happening out there.
6)Everybody should remember that any one of us could be in the shoes of my father, having flown professionally for 33 years, 55.5 years old, and contemplating whether all of the sacrifices are going to pay off. I'm not trying to tell a 'poor me' sob story...I'm just trying to illustrate the facts. I believe that's what Doug is trying to do as well.
N6701_anga10-
I think there's always going to be a struggle to bridge the gap between what is actually taking place in the industry and those with an interest (both political and financial) to speak of otherwise.
There can be a break in the clouds and the vendors start selling sunglasses and sunscreen on the streets, but, as a meteorologist, if you mention the fact that there is a 99.999% chance of rain so you might want to consider taking a jacket and an umbrella tonight, the vendors are going to be pissed off that you dare mention the fact of an approaching rain storm.
See, as a meterologist, if you don't say anything, you're doing everyone a disservice by not telling the full story, but if you actually do mention the approaching storm, even though it's the dead of winter, people with a vested interest think you're a big meanie.
Like if I mention the following "Prepare yourself, there are no short cuts and keep debt low while training" -- I can virtually guarantee that'll generate at least three disgruntled emails in the next 30 minutes. I've been doing this internet thing since 1997 so it's highly predictable!
I think there's always going to be a struggle to bridge the gap between what is actually taking place in the industry and those with an interest (both political and financial) to speak of otherwise.
There can be a break in the clouds and the vendors start selling sunglasses and sunscreen on the streets, but, as a meteorologist, if you mention the fact that there is a 99.999% chance of rain so you might want to consider taking a jacket and an umbrella tonight, the vendors are going to be pissed off that you dare mention the fact of an approaching rain storm.
See, as a meterologist, if you don't say anything, you're doing everyone a disservice by not telling the full story, but if you actually do mention the approaching storm, even though it's the dead of winter, people with a vested interest think you're a big meanie.
Like if I mention the following "Prepare yourself, there are no short cuts and keep debt low while training" -- I can virtually guarantee that'll generate at least three disgruntled emails in the next 30 minutes. I've been doing this internet thing since 1997 so it's highly predictable!
EDUC8-or
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
In my personal and professional opinion, unbalanced "glee" about the state of aviation profession is extremely detrimental to everyone, including those trying to work their way because then (and I'm not accusing Comair Academy in any way, shape, or form of this) every Tom, Dick and Harry pops up with a "get hired quick" scam to seperate starry eyed potential aviators away from their dollars.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the way I see it. I'd rather have someone who runs a website that's out to HELP future aviators rather than HELP the bungholios who try to take your money and run. (ATA down the road in Orlando comes to mind. How would you feel if you dropped 60 grand for 3 hours of dual received?)
YES! You too can be a pilot. Airlines are hiring at record rates! All you need is 60 grand to start flying today! Don't have it? Get your parents or grandparents to co-sign and risk their good credit. All it takes is one phone call to get the ball rolling. You could be in the right seat of an airliner in 10 months!
I think Flava-Flav and Chuck D. said it best... "Don't Believe the Hype!"
In my personal and professional opinion, unbalanced "glee" about the state of aviation profession is extremely detrimental to everyone, including those trying to work their way because then (and I'm not accusing Comair Academy in any way, shape, or form of this) every Tom, Dick and Harry pops up with a "get hired quick" scam to seperate starry eyed potential aviators away from their dollars.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the way I see it. I'd rather have someone who runs a website that's out to HELP future aviators rather than HELP the bungholios who try to take your money and run. (ATA down the road in Orlando comes to mind. How would you feel if you dropped 60 grand for 3 hours of dual received?)
YES! You too can be a pilot. Airlines are hiring at record rates! All you need is 60 grand to start flying today! Don't have it? Get your parents or grandparents to co-sign and risk their good credit. All it takes is one phone call to get the ball rolling. You could be in the right seat of an airliner in 10 months!
I think Flava-Flav and Chuck D. said it best... "Don't Believe the Hype!"
Dangit, my predictions are getting rusty. I only got 2 mad emails in my jetcareers account in 48 minutes... quite a bit down from my prediction of 3 in 30 minutes.
Maybe the Dow's up today, people aren't as angry this afternoon!
All the better!
You can almost set the clock by this stuff sometimes. weird.
Maybe the Dow's up today, people aren't as angry this afternoon!
All the better!
You can almost set the clock by this stuff sometimes. weird.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Believe me - I'm in no way pissed at the realism that Doug, A300, Eagle... or any others are kind enough to share with us. Believe it or not, I'm pretty much a realist and like to know what I'm getting myself into.
I took issue with the "tone" of your response - if I misinterpreted that tone, then I apologize.
I do not like to have blinders on when I go into a situation. I do my research. From that research and from reading the posts here from the guys in the know - I realize things are not rosey... and won't be for quite some time.
That's why I like to see the "local boy done good" stories.
Doug knows I appreciate him and the work he puts into this site - if he doesn't he does now! Hell - I'm on here every day. I can't imagine how many hours and $ of my employers time and money I've burned up posting here.
But, I dig being a part of this "community". Not everyone is going to agree with me and visa versa. I can deal with that. I'm a big boy (and old one too)
.
Like I said - I sincerely hope that the scenario with your family does not play out into the negative.
Good luck and keep us posted.
R2F
I took issue with the "tone" of your response - if I misinterpreted that tone, then I apologize.
I do not like to have blinders on when I go into a situation. I do my research. From that research and from reading the posts here from the guys in the know - I realize things are not rosey... and won't be for quite some time.
That's why I like to see the "local boy done good" stories.
Doug knows I appreciate him and the work he puts into this site - if he doesn't he does now! Hell - I'm on here every day. I can't imagine how many hours and $ of my employers time and money I've burned up posting here.
But, I dig being a part of this "community". Not everyone is going to agree with me and visa versa. I can deal with that. I'm a big boy (and old one too)
Like I said - I sincerely hope that the scenario with your family does not play out into the negative.
Good luck and keep us posted.
R2F
yankee_one
New Member
Doug,
I can understand your point of view, and appreciate it. I'm sorry if I jumped the gun a bit. I guess I'm a bit biased as I truly belive in what Delta Connection Academy can and does offer. Yes the industry in the majors is horrible, but no one on this thread was talking about that. They were talking about jobs at the regionals. And from what I can see, with the exception of disgruntled pilots at the majors that can't be hired at Comair or other carriers without giving up a senoirity number, there isn't much of a reason to be negative about the industry at this level.
Hey.. The Village called back... they had a wrong number
I can understand your point of view, and appreciate it. I'm sorry if I jumped the gun a bit. I guess I'm a bit biased as I truly belive in what Delta Connection Academy can and does offer. Yes the industry in the majors is horrible, but no one on this thread was talking about that. They were talking about jobs at the regionals. And from what I can see, with the exception of disgruntled pilots at the majors that can't be hired at Comair or other carriers without giving up a senoirity number, there isn't much of a reason to be negative about the industry at this level.
Hey.. The Village called back... they had a wrong number
Plus, they, uhh, kind of sign your paycheck!
*wink*
Actually, ASA will hire a furloughed pilot without resigning his Delta seniority number as per an agreement.
Care to enlighten us about what the Comair MEC said to us since we're talking about pilots being "disgruntled" and all?
Actually, ASA will hire a furloughed pilot without resigning his Delta seniority number as per an agreement.
Care to enlighten us about what the Comair MEC said to us since we're talking about pilots being "disgruntled" and all?
yankee_one
New Member
My paycheck and yours too!
Hey.. truly sorry to hear about your family and cancer.
I lost a loved one as well recently to it.
I've got no idea what the MEC has said to you. I get a filtered down he said she said version of it down here. And it's really not a problem for me. Someone else said he (doug) is probably just ticked that Comair won't hire any Furloughed pilots. I think that can be a whole other debate totally. All I am wanting to see is a place were people can be happy about those who are making it today, and not try and belittle them.
Hey.. truly sorry to hear about your family and cancer.
I lost a loved one as well recently to it.
I've got no idea what the MEC has said to you. I get a filtered down he said she said version of it down here. And it's really not a problem for me. Someone else said he (doug) is probably just ticked that Comair won't hire any Furloughed pilots. I think that can be a whole other debate totally. All I am wanting to see is a place were people can be happy about those who are making it today, and not try and belittle them.
Herein lies the rub. I'm actually doing Comair a favor by even having this forum and on various occasions, I've had to deal with the "Oh you're disgruntled" and "Oh, you're mad" or "Oh (insert emoticon here)" in reference to Comair.
Am I upset with Comair? Bet your sweet butt I am because not only will Comair not hire a furloughed Delta pilot who chooses to resign his seniority number, Fred Buttrell has said that if Comair hires ANY Delta pilot, the (comair) pilots would, and I quote, "...burn the house down."
And before you state that it's a standard policy, tell us about the preferential United Airlines furloughed pilot situation from a few years ago.
ASA agreed to hire furloughed Delta pilots and in the future, their kindness will absolutely be remembered and richly rewarded.
A few of Comairs pilots launched a campaign called the "RJDC" which is suing my national union and I for billions of dollars.
I think your institution is extremely fortunate to even have a forum that I have not ever asked you for a dime to cover bandwidth costs... I've also endured numerous private messages and emails from CAA people about how they wanted their free forum run. I'm still trying to figure that one out.
I even got a little "fan mail" for stressing to my users to get the degree first before attenting any academy. Your competitors in Vero Beach and Fort Pierce thought it was good gouge except CAA.
Frank, you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. I'm a supporter of the free internet, but you're not going to come into my house and dictate your demands on what you want, how I speak, and then refer to me as an idiot as in a previous post. Extremely professional.
Besides, I'd like to see you explain to my best friend who is a furloughed pilot living in CVG how he should be cheery and stop being disgruntled because he's a furloughed major airline pilot.
Am I upset with Comair? Bet your sweet butt I am because not only will Comair not hire a furloughed Delta pilot who chooses to resign his seniority number, Fred Buttrell has said that if Comair hires ANY Delta pilot, the (comair) pilots would, and I quote, "...burn the house down."
And before you state that it's a standard policy, tell us about the preferential United Airlines furloughed pilot situation from a few years ago.
ASA agreed to hire furloughed Delta pilots and in the future, their kindness will absolutely be remembered and richly rewarded.
A few of Comairs pilots launched a campaign called the "RJDC" which is suing my national union and I for billions of dollars.
I think your institution is extremely fortunate to even have a forum that I have not ever asked you for a dime to cover bandwidth costs... I've also endured numerous private messages and emails from CAA people about how they wanted their free forum run. I'm still trying to figure that one out.
I even got a little "fan mail" for stressing to my users to get the degree first before attenting any academy. Your competitors in Vero Beach and Fort Pierce thought it was good gouge except CAA.
Frank, you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. I'm a supporter of the free internet, but you're not going to come into my house and dictate your demands on what you want, how I speak, and then refer to me as an idiot as in a previous post. Extremely professional.
Besides, I'd like to see you explain to my best friend who is a furloughed pilot living in CVG how he should be cheery and stop being disgruntled because he's a furloughed major airline pilot.
G
Guest
Guest
Just curious Doug, but what do you think about flow through agreements, like AA and Eagle have with each other. It seems that if Delta had flow through with some of their connection carriers it might make for a better situation overall for both sides. I know that it would shaft some of the low seniority guys with the regionals at this point, but in the long run when the industry picks up they to would benefit from it.
Maybe I'm totally off, but just thought I'd throw that out for some opinions.
Matt
Maybe I'm totally off, but just thought I'd throw that out for some opinions.
Matt
Personally, I think flow through programs are a great idea. You could groom a pilot from the second he hits a regional all the way up to his last few months as a 777 captain before he retires.
But you've got to work the program carefully. I think the AMR/EGL thing has been a little disasterous, but the CAL/XJET system has worked better.
Less dealing with division of labor, less problems with fighting the downward pressure on everyone's wages and a smooth, consistent passenger experience.
Some passenger ran up to me pissed off about his flight to TPA and I was trying to work with the guy to figure out what his flight number was. It turns out that it was Chautauqua so at that point my hands were tied beyond saying "umm, you'll have to call the main telephone number for Delta". It's a little freaky to buy a ticket for an airline and have no idea who you're really going to be flying on!
But you've got to work the program carefully. I think the AMR/EGL thing has been a little disasterous, but the CAL/XJET system has worked better.
Less dealing with division of labor, less problems with fighting the downward pressure on everyone's wages and a smooth, consistent passenger experience.
Some passenger ran up to me pissed off about his flight to TPA and I was trying to work with the guy to figure out what his flight number was. It turns out that it was Chautauqua so at that point my hands were tied beyond saying "umm, you'll have to call the main telephone number for Delta". It's a little freaky to buy a ticket for an airline and have no idea who you're really going to be flying on!
