Hilarious Lego Airline satire video

UAL747400 said:
Once again, it is getting late! I will definitely read those tomorrow! First logical rebuttal so far rather than rhetoric or line pilot gossip!

I think the point you're bringing up is complacency though. I would argue that you could become just as easily and maybe even more dangerously complacent without standardization though. Gimme a few hours, will read and comment.

Our call outs in the Metro/1900 are 1000 feet for configuration and 500 feet for stabilization. In the 120 it's similar, but Vref is referenced continuously from 500 feet to the ground. We fly ref+10 or 130 for flaps 25 to the threshold, slowing to vref by the threshold. The 1000 foot call matters most obviously, but a quiet FO can get interesting in the 120 if the PF is focused outside too much.
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Actually, I don't think I'm bringing up complacency at all. I would agree that without standardization complacency can become dangerous - and the science bears that out. What I am saying is that if a guy misses a minor thing, it doesn't mean he's going to miss major things - the science isn't in yet (at least in this thread it isn't). I think the case could be made that there is a correlation - guys who frequently miss minor things may correlate to guys who miss major things, but correlation ≠ causation. Just because a guy misses something minor, doesn't mean he's going to miss something major.

As for the specific callouts at AMF, what are those callouts meant to do? Are they meant to be a verbal mnemonic for the pilot to remind himself that the airplane needs to be configured at 1000' and stable at 500', or are they meant to trigger config and flight path changes? What happens in practice. Why does the 1000' callout matter the most? I would suggest that if guys are forgetting to put the gear down until the FO says "1000'" then the callout is itself broken. In this case, the callout, "1000'" is meant to identify a specific event - that is to say, crossing the altitude below which you will not descend without having the gear down (and likely some flap setting). Instead this callout has become the trigger for specific action. I've seen something like this before with a rotate callout a couple times. If a guy doesn't hear rotate, sometimes he may not rotate. The callout is broken when that happens, either in the head of the individual who needed to perform an action at that time, or in it's implementation in the system. We need a better error trap.
 
ppragman said:
Actually, I don't think I'm bringing up complacency at all. I would agree that without standardization complacency can become dangerous - and the science bears that out. What I am saying is that if a guy misses a minor thing, it doesn't mean he's going to miss major things - the science isn't in yet (at least in this thread it isn't). I think the case could be made that there is a correlation - guys who frequently miss minor things may correlate to guys who miss major things, but correlation ≠ causation. Just because a guy misses something minor, doesn't mean he's going to miss something major.

As for the specific callouts at AMF, what are those callouts meant to do? Are they meant to be a verbal mnemonic for the pilot to remind himself that the airplane needs to be configured at 1000' and stable at 500', or are they meant to trigger config and flight path changes? What happens in practice. Why does the 1000' callout matter the most? I would suggest that if guys are forgetting to put the gear down until the FO says "1000'" then the callout is itself broken. In this case, the callout, "1000'" is meant to identify a specific event - that is to say, crossing the altitude below which you will not descend without having the gear down (and likely some flap setting). Instead this callout has become the trigger for specific action. I've seen something like this before with a rotate callout a couple times. If a guy doesn't hear rotate, sometimes he may not rotate. The callout is broken when that happens, either in the head of the individual who needed to perform an action at that time, or in it's implementation in the system. We need a better error trap.
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Yeah, I'll read your post and those articles again in the afternoon with a clearer head. :)

The full call is "1000 feet, gear down 3 green *verified by the PF*, no flags, no messages, v-approach." In the 120, it's pretty unlikely both pilots would miss this. In the chieftain, 99, 1900, Metro, this call could easily be lip serviced just like any of the checklists. Which is why I thought complacency with your post.

The 500 foot call is "500 feet, ref+____" plus any additional flight path deviations to prompt the PF to start slowing to vref and correct any deviations or go-around. The PM can call for a go around at any time as well and is supposed to be executed. In the single pilot planes, it could be lip serviced here as well.

I look at the standard calls as putting in an objective place to go around or continue and not have to do a carpet dance about it.

I completely understand the arguments against this and even dismissing it's significance (as a line guy), in the short term at least. I see the merit behind it being much more benificial though (as a manager). Missing a small part, including the phraseology is annoying at best to the other pilot, ignored resulting in an incident/accident at worst. The latter being a prolonged/uncorrected issue, not a one time problem typically I bet.
 
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Says the second in command of the Nintendo jet. Do you want a better office? Or a better airplane?
 
UAL747400 said:
Yeah, I'll read your post and those articles again in the afternoon with a clearer head. :)

The full call is "1000 feet, gear down 3 green *verified by the PF*, no flags, no messages, v-approach." In the 120, it's pretty unlikely both pilots would miss this. In the chieftain, 99, 1900, Metro, this call could easily be lip serviced just like any of the checklists. Which is why I thought complacency with your post.

The 500 foot call is "500 feet, ref+____" plus any additional flight path deviations to prompt the PF to start slowing to vref and correct any deviations or go-around. The PM can call for a go around at any time as well and is supposed to be executed. In the single pilot planes, it could be lip serviced here as well.

I look at the standard calls as putting in an objective place to go around or continue and not have to do a carpet dance about it.

I completely understand the arguments against this and even dismissing it's significance (as a line guy), in the short term at least. I see the merit behind it being much more benificial though (as a manager). Missing a small part, including the phraseology is annoying at best to the other pilot, ignored resulting in an incident/accident at worst. The latter being a prolonged/uncorrected issue, not a one time problem typically I bet.
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I believe the ref call out below 500ft was the most dumb call out of them all when I flew the brasilia. So during the most critical phase of flight you're going to have all of that unnecessary chatter? If you're +5 or -0? Sure! But other than that, shut up and enjoy the ride.

@UAL747400, all GOM's pretty much are the same. They are mostly written by the same companies contracted by the various operations.

Don't are starting to sound more and more like management everyday. :)

As far as AMF's uniform policy goes....it's been a couple of years since I've been there. but I recall that the tie was an option if the temps more than 85. The polo shirt option came out after I left, but I'm sure it's written in the handbook that it's an option. So pilots aren't breaking any policy by wearing them and it shouldn't reflect their professionalism. I never noticed any difference between a good pilot or bad one on how nice their uniform looked.

The problem with policy and procedures at AMF and a lot of operators is that they are usually done as a knee jerk reaction to an incident. They rarely look at outside factors such as fatigue and workload. Many additional procedures added that weren't meant to increase also task saturate flight crew. Hence why flying a chieftan for AMF is equivalent to piloting a space shuttle. During training in that sim, instructors were beating you over the head with flows and procedures while you flew the airplane into a mountain.

Basically what I'm saying is don't major in the minors. :)
 
alaskadrifter said:
Welcome to JetCareers, work work work, union! Work work work, cake!
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On guard, all the way down from DTW to FLL last night:

"work work work.. Yer on GUAAAAARD. You too. *iphone ringtone*. *movie quote* GUAAARD. yuk yuk. work work work CONTRACT"

I reached over and de-selected guard on the copilots side after about 20 minutes of that crap.

I hate to play the old man here, but SHUT THE $#@&$@&^ UP!!!!!

"Enjoy the Silence" - it should be more than a Depeche Mode song that all your moms and I listened to at Overlook Point.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sometimes it's nice flying at 12k where you can't hear every annoying radio transmission in a 500 mile radius. :)
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Bring on the CPDLC, I say.

Are there actually adults in cockpits that are actively patting themselves on the backs with guard jackassery?

"Ooh, skipper, you got 'eem! You're so witty! Here, I'll play the cricket sound on guard next, watch me, watch me! Wait, no, let me break out my conductor whistle, everyone will love this! Sweet! SWEEEEEEEEEET!"

Where's that writer from "Vox" to write an expose on "The Asses of 121.5"? :)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sometimes it's nice flying at 12k where you can't hear every annoying radio transmission in a 500 mile radius. :)
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It's incredibly annoying when you are flying at 500', and your radios are programmed to pick up any transmission on "both" guard frequencies.
While those professional pilots are thinking they are smart and witty, those of us who are actively fighting a Forrest fire, or in the middle of a search and rescue mission, are missing calls on other radios, because your mouth diarrhea overwhelms the radios.

Just because you can't hear it on guard, doesn't mean it, isn't going on.

(I'm not talking about you Todd, I just wanted to show perspective of altitude)
 
Derg said:
On guard, all the way down from DTW to FLL last night:

"work work work.. Yer on GUAAAAARD. You too. *iphone ringtone*. *movie quote* GUAAARD. yuk yuk. work work work CONTRACT"

I reached over and de-selected guard on the copilots side after about 20 minutes of that crap.

I hate to play the old man here, but SHUT THE $#@&$@&^ UP!!!!!

"Enjoy the Silence" - it should be more than a Depeche Mode song that all your moms and I listened to at Overlook Point.
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It's one reason I really enjoyed flying from 2200-0400L. Radio silence. Just me and the airplane.
 
Has guard really gotten that bad? I haven't flown on the mainland for almost 3 years now but I don't remember it being a constant thing. Out here it normally isn't until the 3rd time Delta tries to call San Francisco that somebody says something.
 
BobDDuck said:
Has guard really gotten that bad? I haven't flown on the mainland for almost 3 years now but I don't remember it being a constant thing. Out here it normally isn't until the 3rd time Delta tries to call San Francisco that somebody says something.
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It often is that bad, but not always. I don't usually monitor guard anyway since I am usually on my company's frequency, but the last few times I have monitored guard it was embarrassingly bad. A few weeks ago I was monitoring it over West Virginia and Pennsylvania, and it was pretty much exactly like Derg described, plus a few fake PAs "accidentally" on Guard, followed by at least 20 different people shouting "Guard!". Middle school behavior. I have never monitored guard regularly though, so I'm not sure if it's always been that bad or if it's a recent development.

The funny thing is, I didn't see the first Lego video when it came out earlier this year. I just watched it a few days ago when the sequel was posted on here as well. Now at least I understand what all the "work work work work work contract" nonsense I heard near Pittsburgh was about.
 
Nark said:
It's incredibly annoying when you are flying at 500', and your radios are programmed to pick up any transmission on "both" guard frequencies.
While those professional pilots are thinking they are smart and witty, those of us who are actively fighting a Forrest fire, or in the middle of a search and rescue mission, are missing calls on other radios, because your mouth diarrhea overwhelms the radios.

Just because you can't hear it on guard, doesn't mean it, isn't going on.

(I'm not talking about you Todd, I just wanted to show perspective of altitude)
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Just deselect Guard. Why monitor if it gets annoying?
 
Hacker15e said:
Heard it all on 121.5 tonight over the midwest....

"work, work, work.."
"it's in the contract..."
"hol-i-daaaay"

I resisted the urge to reply with the cricket noise. Instead switched freqs on radio 2.
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Did you spill any coffee or lose your newspaper page in the process of changing freqs?
 
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