CK
Well-Known Member
To fly survey in a single engine piston? Ok, tell him $9,000 for the month's work. Good luck.
Alex.
Help With Pay
- Thread starter TrustMeI'maPilot
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To fly survey in a single engine piston? Ok, tell him $9,000 for the month's work. Good luck.
Alex.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
He's not just flying a single engine piston.
He's managing the aircraft for that time as well (or so it appears). Two jobs require two sets of standards for establishing a daily rate.
If he was just flying it, then sure, maybe $150-200 a day. But he's babysitting the aircraft, will be handling any maintenance issues that come up, managing the survey equipment - which isn't necessarily rocket science but it is another responsibility.
It's not just "Hop in, Turn Key, Throttle forward..."
He's managing the aircraft for that time as well (or so it appears). Two jobs require two sets of standards for establishing a daily rate.
If he was just flying it, then sure, maybe $150-200 a day. But he's babysitting the aircraft, will be handling any maintenance issues that come up, managing the survey equipment - which isn't necessarily rocket science but it is another responsibility.
It's not just "Hop in, Turn Key, Throttle forward..."
CK
Well-Known Member
Was the regional pilot going to school me about lowering the bar? I like you Surreal, but I have always worked hard to raise the bar. Maybe I am in the wrong this time and a 207 pilot really is worth $9000 a month, it just seems odd to me, but I have no idea how the surveying industry works. $4000 a month plus expenses seemed more than fair to me, but maybe I'm just out of touch.
Alex.
CK
Well-Known Member
Now that is a much better argument than your first post. I still don't think a cheif pilot (I guess that is a fair description) flying a 207 is worth $9,000 a month, but that just my opinion. If he can get it, that is awesome. Again, I know very little about survey flying, maybe $9,000 a month is reasonable. I thought most made around $2,000 a month.
Edit: As I thought about the $4,000 a month I forgot that you are really doing about two months worth of work in that month. So I agree, $4,000 a month is less than I would want, even if it is substantially higher than the other companies pay.
Alex.
TrustMeI'maPilot
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the replies guys. As much as I would love to ask for $300/day and I agree that's what I'm worth, it's just not realistic around here when there are 100 other pilot's willing to do it for just about free. My goal is to be paid a decent amount but not so much that he walks away and goes to someone else.
I have decided on using a day rate, the owner offered $160/day with a food allowance and hotel paid. I came back with $175/day and he said he'll think about it.
I'll keep you guys informed.
I have decided on using a day rate, the owner offered $160/day with a food allowance and hotel paid. I came back with $175/day and he said he'll think about it.
I'll keep you guys informed.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
So a guy flying a 172 is worth more than a NetJets FO or a junior captain/senior FO at almost any major airline or 135 op. 9K a month is 108K a year without taxes. Your talking Captain pay at alot of airlines to fly a simple training aircraft with a camera on it. Don't get me wrong I truely wish this is how pilots were paid but if he asks for that kind of money the guy will laugh in his face and hire someone else for 1/4 of what hes asking. Nice to try to raise the bar and all but you may as well ask for a couple Million because 9K a month is about just as likely to happen. You guys crack me up... :laff:
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Oh trust me, I don't need to worry about schooling you Alex. To me it's not about lowering the bar one bit. It's about being fairly compensated for the services you're going to be rendering and the responsibilities you're going to be taking on.
You've got it made though man. Don't fear anyone trying to school you.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
I would have taken the $160. That's still $4800 bucks a month with all hotels and meals paid!! Seems like a great deal to fly a 172 around. Don't sell yourself short by any means but in this job market the person doing the hiring holds all the cards. Just sayin...
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Maybe for something with 2 motors and a pressurization system...
TrustMeI'maPilot
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I have to be realistic, I'm not being contracted to fly a Kingair. If I asked for that he would laugh and move on. If I do this job then I have the potential for more contract work. Which I need because no one wants to learn how to fly right now.
TrustMeI'maPilot
Well-Known Member
Thanks SoCal, Honestly I'm willing to do it for $160 but obviously I want to see if I can get more. Work is so hard to come by right now especially at my flight school. I'd actually make more if I just quit and filed for unemployment.
Sucks when I realize 1.5 years ago I was teaching 100 hours a month and was able to put half of every paycheck into savings.
Sucks when I realize 1.5 years ago I was teaching 100 hours a month and was able to put half of every paycheck into savings.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Don't thank me, I think you knew before asking what you thought would be fair compensation. I'm one of the lucky ones but as you know you aren't the only one in your type of situation. Just keep with it and in due time it will turn around. Congrats on the possible job too by the way.
Also for everyone else, don't think I condone flying for less that what you are worth just saying that everyone needs to get realistic and in this market finding someone to fly a 172 isn't too difficult. Pricing yourself out of your only job lead before you even set foot into the cockpit isn't exactly the definition of a savvy contract pilot.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Like I hinted at earlier, and I'm sure the career contract guys will agree, it's not just about flying a plane.
How many NetJets or airline Captains are managing that aircraft? It's under management by a contracted company to takes care of it while it's away from base. Not the pilot's responsibility, for the most part.
When you go to work for a company and they tell you "Fly this mission, with this aircraft, in this location (across the country I might add from their base), what should we pay you?" I think you have to look at the whole picture.
Perhaps $300 a day is too much, I don't know. Everyone is different, and everyone values their services in a different way. But if you think airline pilots get pissed about people "lowering the bar" you have no idea how contract pilots react when they get word of someone dropping the hammer.
The job doesn't come with benefits, it doesn't come with days off (usually), and you're not just being compensated to fly the plane. Or at least not most contract opportunities. I've learned quite a bit about the contract side of the house these past few months. So much so that I can't rationally justify leaving my family for an extended period of time, but it has certainly been eye-opening. Minitour might be able to give you guys some more insight into how they arrive at their daily rates, etc. as well.
Center_Mid
Well-Known Member
Since you'll be a contract employee and, I assume, responsible for paying your own taxes, I'd shoot for a little more, which it sounds like you are.
Also, a little off topic, but be sure to clarify insurance before you sign the contract. Heaven forbid something happens. You do not want to be caught without coverage. If you think you can, politely ask to see a copy of the Approved Pilot Clause or the Additional Pilots Clause, which are sometimes known as the Pilot Warranty or Pilot Endorsement.
Good luck!
Also, a little off topic, but be sure to clarify insurance before you sign the contract. Heaven forbid something happens. You do not want to be caught without coverage. If you think you can, politely ask to see a copy of the Approved Pilot Clause or the Additional Pilots Clause, which are sometimes known as the Pilot Warranty or Pilot Endorsement.
Good luck!
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
So landing at an airport and strapping the plane down for the night is somehow managing the plane? I don't really see it that way, I think we may be reaching a little bit. However if you think $350 a day is fair to fly a 172 around then so be it, Im not gonna argue that. Im just saying that I don't think that it is a "competitive" rate for the services being offered, competitive being the key word there. Like I said I'm all for raising the bar but you have to know how to pick your battles. I'm not saying that he shouldn't get $350 a day but just saying if you want the work you have to be realistic in this market. Thats all... Its not like $4800 a month for flying a 172 is lowering the bar. If it isn't enough for you then don't take the job...
I don't have a job currently. Cause currently on furlough. Yes! I am still current with 2 jets back of me. Trying to pick up contract work or anything. That is why I suggested my flat day rate. Do understand your only flying a C-172. Never hurt to ask though and then a non receptive offer come down to $150.00 Day + $50.00 Per Diem + Hotel and Expenses is realistic.
When I took a C-172 from NC - CA. The flight school sent me an airline ticket to KCLT, paid for rental car. Arrived into CLT at night and drove to the aircraft's airport. Spent the night and inspected the A/C and all the documents. Then set out on my first real XC back to CA (Transcontinental), (3 yrs ago).
What ever you decide make sure you get it in written form.
When I took a C-172 from NC - CA. The flight school sent me an airline ticket to KCLT, paid for rental car. Arrived into CLT at night and drove to the aircraft's airport. Spent the night and inspected the A/C and all the documents. Then set out on my first real XC back to CA (Transcontinental), (3 yrs ago).
What ever you decide make sure you get it in written form.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
This isn't for a whole year, it is 30 days. Contract rates are necessarily higher becuase: 1) you don't get them for a full year 2) you expect to spend time (unpaid) looking for work 3) you are covering your own taxes/self employment/unemployment/health insurance
Sounds like $4800 was the offer anyway - I think about $5000 sounds fair.
And hey - most of the 172 CFIs I know made way more instructing in 172s than they have on their 65 hour guarantee reserve schedules as regional FO's. So yeah, they were making more in 172s than CRJ's...
vheissu
Well-Known Member
Better watch out posting that with these kind of thread nazi's around. First they will tell you $4000 a month for some C172 flying is lowering the bar, then they will jump on you saying that flight time on your NC-CA trip was compensation and therefore illegal! Give me a break.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
I made way more instructing my last year than I did my first year of flying at a regional but I pretty much plateaued at the instructor level and I figure you gotta start your career at some point. Flying around a 172 for $25 and hour isn't bad but it isn't exactly gonna be feeding a family of 4 or putting the kids through college down the road. All I was saying is that in this market if I were jobless with no students I would jump at $4800 to fly a 172 around all month with all my food and hotel paid for. I don't think the guy is trying to make it rich, hes just trying to keep busy and keep food on the table during these tough times. Also comparing $4800 and $5000 is only $6 bucks a day. Not really worth arguing and risking the job over something so minuscule.
Also nice name/avatar, I have two Beagles myself.