Help With Pay

mojo, I know it appears I was jumping down someone's throat. . .but . . .if your imagination is that wild, then there is no point in me telling that I wasn't doing any such thing.

And guys, go back and take a look. . .tell me if I ever referenced 9,000 as pay for this job.
 
First, a pilot is a pilot, pure and simple. You either fly airplanes for a living, or you don't. The "bene's" you get at ASA or wherever you work, are just that, benefits. They are not pay. Saying you are paid in "benefits" is like saying slaves got paid in food and housing. Whether you realize it or not, the captain is managing the aircraft, he signs off the flight release, he has final authority over airworthiness, and if its broke, he doesn't fly it until its fixed. The only difference is that and this guy, is if TrustMeI'mAPilot sees something broke, he calls up the local shop and has them fix it, which, btw, he's not paying for. If the captain sees something broke, he calls up mx and they fix it. Same game, different name.

As for the second, that's a very poor wage for 11 months of work. I made about $38k last year while changing jobs (which essentially resulted in about a month off for training and the like). I'll probably do about the same this year and I changed jobs again (had to change colleges, otherwise I'd have made at least $45-50k at my old gig). The stuff I'm doing isn't "hardcore bush flying" either, I'm not risking life and limb every day I go in. It's just 135. I lack benes (which is somewhat of an issue) but even if I had to pay for my own insurance (I'm on a family plan) I'd still wouldn't pay more than $6,000 per year. $38k-$6k = $32k. $32,000 > $25,000. The only bene that you really got more than I did is CASS, and even then I still got nonrev on Alaska, and several others at my old job, and ID-90s for a nominal fee here (don't know what the fee is, but it isn't much).

To be honest, even when I was a co-pilot at ACE I would have made more money than $25,000 per year. As a copilot there, I made $25/hr flight, and about 1200-1300hrs per year. Home every night (literally every night). Ace also had a full benefits package, 401K matching, and several other "benes." ACE also had quick upgrade for everyone who was eligible for ATPs (I was not, I had to wait 3 years or so because of ATP age restrictions, and pay stays the same, so I left, though I still would have made more than a lot of t-prop FOs). My buddies who were older and got there at essentially the same time, about 1 month before, are already captains. They're making $50/hr, at 1200hrs per year. Do the math.

I'm sorry, but I don't care how you write it out, or make it appear, $25000 per year sucks. I don't care what experience you got doing it, it wasn't worth pay that low. That's so low, its not even "paying your dues low." That's wild. How can you, or anyone else for that matter, stand up and tell people to better the industry, better themselves, and that they shouldn't sell themselves short, when you made roughly half of my yearly salary to fly an airplane that's way more complex and has way more people in the back. Even captains wages at ASA suck when you think about it, the newest captain (if he's still on 3rd year pay) there is making only $62/hr. To be responsible for what does the CRJ200 have, 40 seats? That's probably about $70k per year after per diem and the like. What should he really be making? I'd argue at least $80/year, probably more like $90.

Jesus Christ Kid.

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

We get it. You hate the regional pay structure. Whoopie-Do. Here's a cookie.

That said, whether I agree with the full compensation system or not, we as labor are provided a salary, then certain benefits to make up the rest of our compensation system. I don't consider my benefits (or lack their of) to be part of my salary.

You've got everything figured out Pat. I really wish you the best of luck.

What's a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year 135 piston driver at your outfit make per year Pat?

Sine we're measuring our worth by our annual incomes. You really want to get into how much I've made over my years in the various professional fields I've worked in? Seriously? Is that the debate you want to have? Jesus man. Chill out for once. Get laid, find an Eskimo, do something.
 
That's fine...Just don't jump down someone's throat for "lowering the bar" for making more money than that, flying smaller aircraft, in a non-passenger carrying op. That is my only gripe. :)

I was one of the only ones telling him to take the $4800 or $160 p/day. Reread my posts... :yar:
 
I was one of the only ones telling him to take the $4800 or $160 p/day. Reread my posts... :yar:

I realize that. I was just addressing the points you made in the one post I quoted.

And guys, go back and take a look. . .tell me if I ever referenced 9,000 as pay for this job.

Well you specifically quoted someone saying 9k is too much and that around 4k is much more reasonable, and then posted "Ahhh forget it." What exactly were you talking about then?

PS: I love the Velocipede type subtle namecalls you are throwing in. I guess everyone is a "kid", "junior", or "sport" compared to you, huh?
 
Well you specifically quoted someone saying 9k is too much and that around 4k is much more reasonable, and then posted "Ahhh forget it." What exactly were you talking about then?

PS: I love the Velocipede type subtle namecalls you are throwing in. I guess everyone is a "kid", "junior", or "sport" compared to you, huh?

The Ah forget it was discussed via PM concerning the member in which I quoted. Was it anyone else's business? I didn't think so, so we didn't discuss it in the public realm. Alex and I reached an equitable agreement and understanding and that's it. Sorry you weren't invited.

Report my post if you find it offensive.
 
But But But We got an SIC Circle to Land VMC Only rating too!!! :D

I think everyone will agree that 25K is way too low but unfortunately right now that is the entry level wage if you want to start flying in a 121 environment. I hate to say it but I don't think too many people go from a 207 to a major airline or from a 207 to making 6 figures. Although I admit I could be wrong, I don't know that much about 135 cargo ops. Same with instructing, I made 27 per hr. my last few months of instructing. Just because I made a bit more cash didn't mean I was going to remain an instructor flying a 152 around for the rest of my life. If thats your thing then good for you but like I said earlier flying a 207 or Instructing maybe a bit better paying than a 1st year regional FO but you are comparing an entry level FO to a relatively senior Flight Instructor or 135 pilot. I haven't heard of too many people putting 2 kids through college flying a 207. We all need to fight to make regional wages better but I don't see flying 135 cargo and 121 airline ops as being the same by the farthest stretch of the imagination. I maybe digging myself a whole with this because I am assuming but at my airline a 13 year (Regional) Captain will break 100K a year what would a 13 year 207 pilot make?

Up here you can put your kids through college by working your way up the bush ladder. If you were at Hageland for 13 years there's a good chance you be in the 1900 ($400/day and up if I recall) by then, making crazy money. If you were at Grant, the same thing applies. In fact, I know of many people up here who have done just that. A buddy of mine made $66,000 flying the 207 last year. That's why you find guys with 13,000hrs in 207s, that being said, down south it is different. A lot of guys up here go straight from the bush to a major also.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to better yourself, hell, I took a paycut to leave a job that had only 207s to come down here to JNU for the opportunity to work my way into the float-plane and the twin.

Down south I don't think the progression is the same, however, you can go to a place like Amflight, and work your way up into turbine equipment, then jump ship to a major and make money. The problem with the regionals is that they


Jesus Christ Kid.

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

We get it. You hate the regional pay structure. Whoopie-Do. Here's a cookie.

That said, whether I agree with the full compensation system or not, we as labor are provided a salary, then certain benefits to make up the rest of our compensation system. I don't consider my benefits (or lack their of) to be part of my salary.

You've got everything figured out Pat. I really wish you the best of luck.

What's a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year 135 piston driver at your outfit make per year Pat?


Sine we're measuring our worth by our annual incomes. You really want to get into how much I've made over my years in the various professional fields I've worked in? Seriously? Is that the debate you want to have? Jesus man. Chill out for once. Get laid, find an Eskimo, do something.

The only response I'll make to this is what's bolded. At my outfit, not much more, that being said, most guys are seasonal, and the only guys who have been here 4 years or more are the lifers. That being said, at a place like hageland, after 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years you're in the Caravan and then maybe into the 406 or Navajo. You're making really really good money at that point. I think $300/day is Caravan pay, though I could be wrong. Same is true at grant. At Grant you'd at least be in the Caravan, and probably be in the Navajo at year 3. You might be able to bid the anchorage run then, and avoid the two-on-two-off schedule.

Self worth isn't measured by salary, its measured by the quality of the mark you leave on the world combined with the fun you have while you're here (in my opinion). You decide how well you're doing, not anyone else.
 
I think it is funny that the OP got the advice he needed and split outta this thread and people are driving it into the 3rd page by arguing with the OP nowhere in sight!
 
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