Hello Rabbit hole, thanks N600RA...

Nope. I read through the procedure on the DC-8 and if you're going to let me run through it a few times in the sim… "maybe", under very particular circumstances.

But old turkey after simply reading it? That first abort was Murphy saying, "Hey man, I let you slide this time"

I don't personally believe a procedure like that necessarily requires specific maintenance crews or management crews to fly it. So long as crews are trained to it, and it's even part of recurrent, then it shouldn't be something that's rocket science or reserved for special crews. Even with that, because it's non-standard and somewhat rare, any crew performing it needs to not be rushed, needs to plan and brief it accordingly, and triple check the items that you'd normally only double check.

That said, if a company wants only special crews to fly it, and doesn't want to train line crews on that operation at all because it's a rarity, then that's fine too.
 
I have had arguments with management in "procedures" that we were approved to do, that were unsafe without proper training. No Bueno..


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I have had arguments with management in "procedures" that we were approved to do, that were unsafe without proper training. No Bueno..

Agreed. If line crews are going to do it, train them so. It's not an impossible task or one that requires a Douglas test pilot. However if the training isn't going to be given and the information kept current for line crews, then specific crews who are trained will be needed.

Like Doug said, while the procedure can be safely performed cold turkey in an extreme situation, that's not a wise or necessarily safe course of action for any kind of normal, day to day operations, where there's no "last plane out of Saigon" priority to do so.
 
Something as basic as a gear down, low pass or a "high speed" taxi check is outside the realm of normal, trained operations. I did a bit of a carpet dance years ago for refusing to get the plane up to 120 knots and then slam on the brakes to check the auto spoiler deployment. Ain't no procedure to do above 80 knot rejects. The DO told me I had received training because I did a high speed reject in the sim every year.

(Fuzzily) legal doesn't equal smart.
 
At SJI, gear down tower low passes are not authorized. We aren't trained for it, and tower personnel aren't trained to make MX determinations.
 
A timely article considering the last couple days I've had. Nothing major, but had to make a "big boy" decision while ferrying an SR20 to the West Coast from Chicago. ALT2 indicator came on after the 2nd fuel stop, and after running the checklist for it still wouldn't extinguish. Called the "boss" who asked if I could make it VMC. "Uhh, nope, and definitely not over the New Mexico mountains." As soon as we pulled the cowling (there happened to be a mechanic onsite in BFE panhandle Texas on a Sunday) we found oil coming through a crankshaft seal or some other mechanical jargon I don't fully understand. If was enough for me to nix the flight. Mechanic confirmed second alternator was poop. Thus began the longest trip home ever...A story over beers at the next NJC...

The good idea fairy was all over this guy thinking he would take off single engine and air start it. Lucky he wasn't killed or that he didn't kill 3 people who didn't know any better.
 
At SJI, gear down tower low passes are not authorized. We aren't trained for it, and tower personnel aren't trained to make MX determinations.
Yeah, what is tower gonna say that is gonna change what you'll do? If they say it looks down, you'll still treat it like it could fold when you put weight on it.
 
Agreed. If line crews are going to do it, train them so. It's not an impossible task or one that requires a Douglas test pilot. However if the training isn't going to be given and the information kept current for line crews, then specific crews who are trained will be needed.

Yeah, I want to see something like that in the sim and have clearly delineated guidance so I can form my own "personal minimums" with a maneuver like that.

Mechanics don't fly airplanes as much as pilots really have no business telling maintenance about the brand of tools they use.

Chief pilots, ha! A lot of them haven't flown for an extended period of time either.

I've developed a "mistrust AND verify". :)
 
Yeah, I want to see something like that in the sim and have clearly delineated guidance so I can form my own "personal minimums" with a maneuver like that.

Mechanics don't fly airplanes as much as pilots really have no business telling maintenance about the brand of tools they use.

Chief pilots, ha! A lot of them haven't flown for an extended period of time either.

I've developed a "mistrust AND verify". :)

You need to be the Chief Pilot of CVG base. :)
 
That would require an immediate username change.

Deductive reason much, bro? :)

You mean like people here with usernames that reflect them still being at a regional or elsewhere, when they've since moved up?

Plus, he'd actually have to make an appearance here to do that. :)
 
You mean like people here with usernames that reflect them still being at a regional or elsewhere, when they've since moved up?

Plus, he'd actually have to make an appearance here to do that. :)

Ha!

Nah, I'm just messing with him. Maybe he's still stuck in ATL!
 
Ha!

Nah, I'm just messing with him. Maybe he's still stuck in ATL!

You're funny :)

He's still in CVG. Number 10 in category, I think. I think he will upgrade relatively soon, still waiting to see if CVG is going to finally be taken off life support or if it'll be allowed to continue to languish with it's ventilators and heart pumps going strong...

Being displaced means keeping VAC awarded dates with pay, no seat lock and being able to go anywhere seniority can hold... voluntarily bidding off means bidding a vacancy, losing VAC pay if you keep the dates and 2 year's seat lock. So there's something to be said for waiting for displacement.

Apparently a CA he flew with looked up the NYC ER list and he can hold ER CA in NY. But he'd be junior ER CA forever. (JRERCA4ever? hahaha) :D
 
You're funny :)

He's still in CVG. Number 10 in category, I think. I think he will upgrade relatively soon, still waiting to see if CVG is going to finally be taken off life support or if it'll be allowed to continue to languish with it's ventilators and heart pumps going strong...

Being displaced means keeping VAC awarded dates with pay, no seat lock and being able to go anywhere seniority can hold... voluntarily bidding off means bidding a vacancy, losing VAC pay if you keep the dates and 2 year's seat lock. So there's something to be said for waiting for displacement.

Apparently a CA he flew with looked up the NYC ER list and he can hold ER CA in NY. But he'd be junior ER CA forever. (JRERCA4ever? hahaha) :D

Do it! Hell, I'd be more senior on the NYC 7ERA than I am DTW 320A. There be some weird crap going on seniority weird seniority crap going on.

There are only 60 people ahead of me for LAX 777A, which is a new category.

Yes'm. I'm speaking "SouthernJets" just to mess with the Wookiee.
 
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