Has it come to this?

jtrain609 said:
Nope, didn't apply. Wasn't interested, to tell you the truth. I was going to fly airplanes, and I applied to the one university I was interested in attending accordingly.
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I was going to fly airplanes, but the last thing I was going to do after 9/11 was get a BS in "aviation science" (or whatever they are calling it these days). You don't need an aviation college to get your pilot certificates/ratings. In fact, I'd recommend anyone to major in something well besides aviation in order to have a good backup in case the flying thing doesn't work out. Lose a medical, long term furlough, etc.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I was going to fly airplanes, but the last thing I was going to do after 9/11 was get a BS in "aviation science" (or whatever they are calling it these days). You don't need an aviation college to get your pilot certificates/ratings. In fact, I'd recommend anyone to major in something well besides aviation in order to have a good backup in case the flying thing doesn't work out. Lose a medical, long term furlough, etc.
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Funny you say that, because 9/11 occurred about 3 weeks after I started undergraduate.

At that point, I switched my major to something useful; philosophy.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I was going to fly airplanes, but the last thing I was going to do after 9/11 was get a BS in "aviation science" (or whatever they are calling it these days). You don't need an aviation college to get your pilot certificates/ratings. In fact, I'd recommend anyone to major in something well besides aviation in order to have a good backup in case the flying thing doesn't work out. Lose a medical, long term furlough, etc.
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Ah, this debate again.
 
It's not a debate, it's just fact. Today, you'd be doing a disservice to someone by telling them to pursue an aviation (pilot) degree as opposed to something outside of aviation in order to obtain a good backup plan. Since 9/11, the industry has proved over and over again that you need a good backup plan besides flying. A huge step that helps is majoring in something outside of pilot/aviation.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It's not a debate, it's just fact. Today, you'd be doing a disservice to someone by telling them to pursue an aviation (pilot) degree as opposed to something outside of aviation in order to obtain a good backup plan. Since 9/11, the industry has proved over and over again that you need a good backup plan besides flying. A huge step that helps is majoring in something outside of pilot/aviation.
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I agree with everything except the 9/11 comment. This industry has been on skates since the late 70's.
 
amorris311 said:
I agree with everything except the 9/11 comment. This industry has been on skates since the late 70's.
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Yes, but even in @Derg 's time going to ERAU was not a bad idea. Prices were still reasonable compared to a local FBO. Since that time, and especially after 9/11, the cost of flying has sky rocketed and the likes of ERAU now absolutely rip off students on hourly/instructor rates. It's not worth it. You'd be far better off just getting your certificates/ratings at a local FBO.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, but even in @Derg 's time going to ERAU was not a bad idea. Prices were still reasonable compared to a local FBO. Since that time, and especially after 9/11, the cost of flying has sky rocketed and the likes of ERAU now absolutely rip off students on hourly/instructor rates. It's not worth it. You'd be far better off just getting your certificates/ratings at a local FBO.
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Tuition at the University of Michigan, if you're in state, over 4 years is $56,000 in tuition. Skymates will get you done through your instrument, commercial and multi for $36,000. Total cost: $92,000.

Western Michigan University, if you're in state, over 4 years is $40,000 in tuition. Flight fees are an additional $57,000. Total cost: $97,000 and you're done a year sooner.

I'm not going to look up the numbers, but you could probably do it at Eastern Michigan University for $20,000 less than the above numbers overall, but that's just a WAG.
 
jtrain609 said:
Tuition at the University of Michigan, if you're in state, over 4 years is $56,000 in tuition. Skymates will get you done through your instrument, commercial and multi for $36,000. Total cost: $92,000.

Western Michigan University, if you're in state, over 4 years is $40,000 in tuition. Flight fees are an additional $57,000. Total cost: $97,000 and you're done a year sooner.

I'm not going to look up the numbers, but you could probably do it at Eastern Michigan University for $20,000 less than the above numbers overall, but that's just a WAG.
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So couldn't you do Western Michigan + Skymates ~ $76k? Money saved is well worth the extra year. But, I was 18 once and wouldn't have listened.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, but even in @Derg 's time going to ERAU was not a bad idea. Prices were still reasonable compared to a local FBO. Since that time, and especially after 9/11, the cost of flying has sky rocketed and the likes of ERAU now absolutely rip off students on hourly/instructor rates. It's not worth it. You'd be far better off just getting your certificates/ratings at a local FBO.
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Hell, most state colleges are a rip off these days, but a necessary evil.

I paid 1200/semester at Riddle, which was expensive, but today in 2014, ASU in-state is almost 14,000/year.

ZOOOOOOMG but look at our footbawl teem!
 
jtrain609 said:
Tuition at the University of Michigan, if you're in state, over 4 years is $56,000 in tuition. Skymates will get you done through your instrument, commercial and multi for $36,000. Total cost: $92,000.

Western Michigan University, if you're in state, over 4 years is $40,000 in tuition. Flight fees are an additional $57,000. Total cost: $97,000 and you're done a year sooner.

I'm not going to look up the numbers, but you could probably do it at Eastern Michigan University for $20,000 less than the above numbers overall, but that's just a WAG.
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I know two people personally who either got an associates at a community college and did the online thing to finish it up or did the whole thing online for a cost of IIRC $10k.

One is at a legacy the other is at SWA. Both were 23 when upgrading at the commuter and <30 when hired at their next company. Certainly a decent way to go although there are rumors DAL doesn't recognize that type of degree.
 
Derg said:
Hell, most state colleges are a rip off these days, but a necessary evil.

I paid 1200/semester at Riddle, which was expensive, but today in 2014, ASU in-state is almost 14,000/year.

ZOOOOOOMG but look at our footbawl teem!
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I paid 750/credit hour. I flew cheap though at Riddle. Couldn't have flown cheaper at an FBO, no way no how.
 
jtrain609 said:
Tuition at the University of Michigan, if you're in state, over 4 years is $56,000 in tuition. Skymates will get you done through your instrument, commercial and multi for $36,000. Total cost: $92,000.

Western Michigan University, if you're in state, over 4 years is $40,000 in tuition. Flight fees are an additional $57,000. Total cost: $97,000 and you're done a year sooner.

I'm not going to look up the numbers, but you could probably do it at Eastern Michigan University for $20,000 less than the above numbers overall, but that's just a WAG.
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Now you're equating the worth of a WMU degree with that of UM-AA. Or Eastern for that matter. ;) Let me put it this way. The engineering job I got right out of college was a job in which no way would I have gotten it had I gone to WMU or Eastern for engineering. Anyway, in state fees is great but only applies to Michigan residents. Most people I knew went out of state to pursue aviation (UND, ERAU, etc). I still think a PVT, Inst, Comm-ME will be cheaper at most mom/pop FBOs (provided you don't live in SFO or NYC etc).
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It's not a debate, it's just fact. Today, you'd be doing a disservice to someone by telling them to pursue an aviation (pilot) degree as opposed to something outside of aviation in order to obtain a good backup plan. Since 9/11, the industry has proved over and over again that you need a good backup plan besides flying. A huge step that helps is majoring in something outside of pilot/aviation.
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How is an aviation degree any less useful than a French History degree? Secondly, let's say you get an accounting degree, get hired by an airline and are furloughed 10 years later. You are going to be a decade out of practice, and any HR rep worth their salt in the accounting field knows you are going to bail at the first flying job you get offered. This backup degree stuff is nonsense. I got a degree to check a box. I was interested in aviation, so I knew it was something I would finish.
 
mojo6911 said:
How is an aviation degree any less useful than a French History degree? Secondly, let's say you get an accounting degree, get hired by an airline and are furloughed 10 years later. You are going to be a decade out of practice, and any HR rep worth their salt in the accounting field knows you are going to bail at the first flying job you get offered. This backup degree stuff is nonsense. I got a degree to check a box. I was interested in aviation, so I knew it was something I would finish.
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The same is true with some engineering programs also. It's a "use it or lose it" type deal or the profession has evolved so much to where you don't know it any more. My wife's a former engineer who bailed on it over 10 years ago to become a teacher.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Now you're equating the worth of a WMU degree with that of UM-AA. Or Eastern for that matter. ;) Let me put it this way. The engineering job I got right out of college was a job in which no way would I have gotten it had I gone to WMU or Eastern for engineering. Anyway, in state fees is great but only applies to Michigan residents. Most people I knew went out of state to pursue aviation (UND, ERAU, etc). I still think a PVT, Inst, Comm-ME will be cheaper at most mom/pop FBOs (provided you don't live in SFO or NYC etc).
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@amorris311, what'd I say?
 
AA34 said:
So couldn't you do Western Michigan + Skymates ~ $76k? Money saved is well worth the extra year. But, I was 18 once and wouldn't have listened.
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I did exactly that, actually.

Well, I did it in 2001-2005 dollars so it was a lot less, but this is in fact what I did.
 
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