I agree that there are some much needed improvements. But SkyWest (and I'm sure many others) are destroying quality of life. For example they are making swaps and drops impossible. Due to the 10 hours between pairings rule, nobody can pick up anything (relatively). Yet SKW will "stitch" together pairing to get around the rule. Especially for reserves. If they offered crews the same service, I could understand their argument. However, since they claim they cannot legally allow us to pick up same-day pairings, then they are apparently breaking the law by their own definition of it. This single quality of life loss makes the rest of 117 of little use for commuters. Also, is it only me that has noticed the pairing inefficiencies since January? Fatigue seems secondary to getting a rule passed. But hey, I only see things through my own lens. I'm glad it works out for some.
H.R. 182, the Safe Skies Act (end cargo carve-out)
- Thread starter Autothrust Blue
- Start date
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Those are all SkyWest problems, not FAA problems. Specifically, what you bemoan (correctly, mind you—I don't like it much either!) has to do with SkedPlus+ automation (for instance, automagically stitching multiple turns in OT into a pairing), adequate reserve staffing (
), and adequate features in SkedPlus+ for crew members and Crew Support alike to trivially determine legalities.(Write your SAPA rep...)
Edit: I don't know why we can't get efficient pairings. @Screaming_Emu and company seem to get them plenty.
They are SKW problems... And I'd still wager that most if not all airlines are doing the same thing. Seems like an industry problem. Any other airlines our there want to chime in? I hope I'm wrong.Those are all SkyWest problems, not FAA problems. Specifically, what you bemoan (correctly, mind you—I don't like it much either!) has to do with SkedPlus+ automation (for instance, automagically stitching multiple turns in OT into a pairing), adequate reserve staffing (
(Write your SAPA rep...)
Edit: I don't know why we can't get efficient pairings. @Screaming_Emu and company seem to get them plenty.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Actually, the Alaskan exemption to flight and duty rules is better in my opinion than what on-demand operators can do in the lower 48.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
How so? Having never flown anything other than Alaska 135 so I really dont know. I really wouldnt mind a limit on the hours flown in a seven say period.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
On the other side of things, 15hr duty days (extendable to 16hr) are pretty damn ridiculous. You can work 15hrs a day for 6 days, then take exactly 24hrs off and do it again - indefinitely.
Patrick
Well-Known Member
The whole 24/7 "available for duty" BS. You're on-call all the time, and then you come on duty an hour before wheels up on a trip- whether it's 8AM, or 2AM after you've been up the whole day.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Hell, I did 5 and a half 15hr duty days a week on the UPS ramp doing "unscheduled" cargo flights at the same time 6 days a week.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Damn. That sucks.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Maybe it wont be so bad when I am on a better schedule, but my 3 on/1 off schedule is slowly killing me. Hopefully I will go to 2/2 pretty soon even if there is a paycut.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
This was a typical work week if I remember the hours right - it's been two years.
Sunday PM - 10:30 PM show, 11:30PM takeoff
Monday AM - Land at 12:30AM - Go to the Hotel.
Monday - Go On duty at 5:30PM fly back to hub at 6:30PM, Land 7:30PM. Go get some dinner. Go back to UPS at 10:30PM, Depart at 11:30PM, land at 12:30AM, unload by 01:00AM, fly back to hub, land at 02:00 AM, wait around for 3 hours, start loading back up at 5:00AM, Depart for outstation at 6:00AM, Land at 7:00AM, of loaded by 7:30-ish AM. If there was weather, off by 8 to 8:30. It's now tuesday morning.
Tuesday - Go On duty at 5:30PM fly back to hub at 6:30PM, Land 7:30PM. Go get some dinner. Go back to UPS at 10:30PM, Depart at 11:30PM, land at 12:30AM, unload by 01:00AM, fly back to hub, land at 02:00 AM, wait around for 3 hours, start loading back up at 5:00AM, Depart for outstation at 6:00AM, Land at 7:00AM, of loaded by 7:30-ish AM. If there was weather, off by 8 to 8:30. It's now wednesday morning.
Wednesday - Go On duty at 5:30PM fly back to hub at 6:30PM, Land 7:30PM. Go get some dinner. Go back to UPS at 10:30PM, Depart at 11:30PM, land at 12:30AM, unload by 01:00AM, fly back to hub, land at 02:00 AM, wait around for 3 hours, start loading back up at 5:00AM, Depart for outstation at 6:00AM, Land at 7:00AM, of loaded by 7:30-ish AM. If there was weather, off by 8 to 8:30. It's now Thursday morning, and I feel damn terrible.
Thursday - Go On duty at 5:30PM fly back to hub at 6:30PM, Land 7:30PM. Go get some dinner. Go back to UPS at 10:30PM, Depart at 11:30PM, land at 12:30AM, unload by 01:00AM, fly back to hub, land at 02:00 AM, wait around for 3 hours, start loading back up at 5:00AM, Depart for outstation at 6:00AM, Land at 7:00AM, of loaded by 7:30-ish AM. If there was weather, off by 8 to 8:30. It's now Friday morning.
Friday - Go On duty at 5:30PM fly back to hub at 6:30PM, Land 7:30PM. It's weekend time! Now I get about 50 hours off before I repeat the mission.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Ouch! Thats brutal. It seems like some more oversight in 135 schedules is needed. Or some changes.
z987k
Well-Known Member
That's not legal under any interpretation of 135 rules ever made. Nor any reasonable reading of them.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Yep - still common practice though. Money > rested crews.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You seem to be conflating fatigue and quality of life. If you don't like your quality of life, then get a union to fix it. The FAA isn't responsible for getting you trip trades. They're responsible for making sure that you get adequate rest. And 117 has done that.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Apophis
Resident Iconoclast
Just because it's not allowed, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are plenty of scumbag 135 operators out there that do this all the time.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Joint responsibility ("no certificate holder may assign and no pilot flight crewmember may accept...") much?
Ya. Unions provide quality of life. Just ask xjt endeavor envoy psa tsa horizon and comair. No offense intended, but your statement is laughable. Also, you want to talk about qol? Only union airlines furloughed after 9/11 and during the recession. There's your qol. I'm not hard core anti union like some, but the facts speak loudly here. We don't just dump the fng's at the first sign of trouble. That's a union airline thing.
My contention is that quality of life is eroded under 117, and that does affect rest in many circumstances.
