Gulfstream International Files for Chapter 11

[WacoFan]

No, and additionally you're worthless as a person.

I hope you get hit by a bus.

And you never call.

I am this week. Wear something pretty.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

With close to 18,900 new United States airline pilots needed just to comply with the proposed new workrules which take effect on August 1, 2011

Where on earth did you come up with that inflated number? You realize that that is an almost 20% increase in the number of airline pilots in America, right? The new flight time/duty time rules will require a small increase in the number of pilots needed, but it isn't anything approaching that crazy number.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Where on earth did you come up with that inflated number? You realize that that is an almost 20% increase in the number of airline pilots in America, right? The new flight time/duty time rules will require a small increase in the number of pilots needed, but it isn't anything approaching that crazy number.

It's actually a 27% increase in the number of airline pilots in America.

If you go through and really look at the current lines and look at the proposed rules you will find that it will take 27% more pilots and flight attendants (if the flight attendants mirror the pilots) to fly the same planes on the same routes with the same passengers when the new work rules go into effect.

It is funny how no one seems to have figured this out. This is the biggest change in aviation in decades and will produce more new pilot jobs than any other recent events. The new rules will actually allow for 8 hours of sleep for the pilots.

Joe

 

[derg]

A little more time in the industry will illustrate how "OMG the best thing EVARR!" quickly becomes "Meh, this is a fix?" after the NPRM process.

 

[Chief Captain]

So, even if we accept your belief that the buyers are the problem, what is your solution? Hating them? How does that solve anything? What is the solution to the problem? That is what you need to ask yourself. Hating these guys and wishing ill will upon them will only result in them hating your right back and turning their backs on their fellow pilots who have rejected them. Way to build unity!

No, the answer isn't hating people and wishing ill will. The answer is finding a way to eliminate the program itself. We have gone a long way towards accomplishing that with HR 5900, which requires 1500 hours and an ATP. When that provision goes into affect in a couple of years, PFJ programs will probably be a thing of the past. And if they are still hanging on by a thread, then the answer is to work to improve the law again, rather than just sitting back and hurling epithets at ignorant kids who buy into the PFJ sales jobs without knowing better.

It's time for this profession to start looking for solutions rather than trying to figure out who to blame. Then we might stand a chance of getting back to our former glory instead of continuing the slide into "just another job."

I'll agree with you 100% that pilots lack unity- and that is a BIG problem. At the same time, didn't these guys stop to think before giving GIA their money? I want turbine time just as much as the next guy, but I'm not about to "pay to do a job".

Let's just be clear, I'm not SUPPORTING the GIA management, I'm just saying that they're just doing what they're paid to do - make money for the company. Blaming GIA is like blaming fast food outlets for making people fat. Nobody force people to eat junk food- a product is offered and some people opt to buy it. GIA sells a product, and some people opt to buy it. The GIA students think they're taking a step forward, when in reality, they're just pushing everybody (themselves included) 10 steps back.

I know it's got to be tough to be out of a job, but I cant't feel sorry for somebody who threw $30k down the drain.

 

[MFT1Air]

I'll agree with you 100% that pilots lack unity- and that is a BIG problem. At the same time, didn't these guys stop to think before giving GIA their money? I want turbine time just as much as the next guy, but I'm not about to "pay to do a job".

Let's just be clear, I'm not SUPPORTING the GIA management, I'm just saying that they're just doing what they're paid to do - make money for the company. Blaming GIA is like blaming fast food outlets for making people fat. Nobody force people to eat junk food- a product is offered and some people opt to buy it. GIA sells a product, and some people opt to buy it. The GIA students think they're taking a step forward, when in reality, they're just pushing everybody (themselves included) 10 steps back.

I know it's got to be tough to be out of a job, but I cant't feel sorry for somebody who threw $30k down the drain.

I don't know if the term "threw $30k down the drain" is appropriate. I don't know the size of the GIA PFJ pilots out there right now, but I would be curious to get statistical data to see if THEY actually received a positive return on investment.

Again, I agree with you as well about the position of GIA, but you also touched on something significant here as far as the "student/SIC" status. That "student" status in which they're being paid only extends for a specified period of time. After that, those students are "replaced" by more "paying students." What happens, especially in this economy, if the pool of paying pilots diminishes (which I suspect has happened). More significantly, most of these pilots. . .has anyone data on average of how many TT these students have when they enroll in the program? For some, they'll say it doesn't matter, but in trying to achieve turbine time if you have 1300 hours TT after instructing in a 152 or banner towing for awhile, perhaps it does matter.

Just wondering what happens when the paying pilot pool fizzles out how GIA filled those seats?

 

[Boris Badenov]

It is likely to be college level courses and military training that will get credits towards the 1500.

Oh, well good. I mean what CAN'T they teach in a classroom these days?

 

[Murdoughnut]

I don't know if the term "threw $30k down the drain" is appropriate. I don't know the size of the GIA PFJ pilots out there right now, but I would be curious to get statistical data to see if THEY actually received a positive return on investment.

Again, I agree with you as well about the position of GIA, but you also touched on something significant here as far as the "student/SIC" status. That "student" status in which they're being paid only extends for a specified period of time. After that, those students are "replaced" by more "paying students." What happens, especially in this economy, if the pool of paying pilots diminishes (which I suspect has happened). More significantly, most of these pilots. . .has anyone data on average of how many TT these students have when they enroll in the program? For some, they'll say it doesn't matter, but in trying to achieve turbine time if you have 1300 hours TT after instructing in a 152 or banner towing for awhile, perhaps it does matter.

Just wondering what happens when the paying pilot pool fizzles out how GIA filled those seats?

My understanding is that when their classes got low, they'd just let the students flying the line stay on longer. They always advertise the possibility of a job with GIA, but I think they only offer it to them if there aren't enough new students to push the other guys out.