Guaranteed Job with ATP?

TopGunn said:
Manning the phones is still over 30K+ a year :dunno:
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True - but I don't think a $30k phone operator job is what any of these folks are signing up for.

That's like the summer I signed up to work as a "camp counselor" for 10-weeks. Had all these great notions of working with kids, leading recreation activities, counseling troubled teens, etc. Except by "camp counselor" they meant "guy who takes out the garbage and cleans the meal trays".
 
I thought I heard something at one point that even if the "guarantee" you a job that after 6 months you are 100% at their mercy, and a lot of people get the boot after that 6 month period. I am talking in relation to their zero to hero program. I have never been there myself, and I am not saying I am positive about them doing this. I would love someone that has experience inside of ATP to back this up or not.
 
I think ATP is pretty legit, and I've had nothing but good experiences in my short dealings with them.

That being said, I never trust anyone who uses the term guarantee. It wouldn't keep me away from their program, but I wouldn't make any decision based on that.

The only person who ever "guaranteed" me anything in aviation was the Tab Express rep I spoke to over the phone years ago, who guaranteed me a first officer job if I went through the program. I balked at the $90k (this was before I knew about PFT). Others weren't so intuitive.
 
Muff3n said:
I thought I heard something at one point that even if the "guarantee" you a job that after 6 months you are 100% at their mercy, and a lot of people get the boot after that 6 month period. I am talking in relation to their zero to hero program. I have never been there myself, and I am not saying I am positive about them doing this. I would love someone that has experience inside of ATP to back this up or not.
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No need to search any farther than their website...

They are very upfront with this. They aren't trying to hide anything on this subject. I would think that it would be true of any flight school that if you aren't working out after a certain period of time... then off ya go to make room for someone else who would.

ATP website said:
After graduating from the Airline Career Pilot Program, your next step is to build experience and flight time as a flight instructor with ATP. As a Fast Track graduate, you receive guaranteed instructor job placement for 6 months, earning approximately $2,000 per month in ATP’s network of 22 training centers nationwide...

While your instructor position is guaranteed for six months, the best instructors will have the opportunity to continue working with ATP...
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6 months can equate to @ 400+ multi & dual given. Still not anything to sneeze at and would make you a bit more marketable at your local FBO. Also... look at how many guys on JC are looking for Multi-Engine time building program$... One wouldn't have to worry about that either.


Bob
 
Captain_Bob said:
From what I understand... that page is nothing more than a blog. The information may have been current at the time it was written. But it looks like it just came from a line pilot at Comair and not ATP. It seems like the other info she shared with ATP came to fruition.
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It is dated 6 days ago (8/5/10) and by Paul T (Who should know better then to put out BS) not some blog. None of the people in upgrade class are new upgrades (So none would have to take the ATP written).
 
Gonzo said:
It is dated 6 days ago (8/5/10) and by Paul T (Who should know better then to put out BS) not some blog. None of the people in upgrade class are new upgrades (So none would have to take the ATP written).
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Gonzo, you are wrong. I know for a fact that what is on that blog is factual. I have spoken with the upgrade that you are talking about and what was stated on that blog was factual, 100%.

The pilot in question said JFK was closing on a certain date, I checked it out and it will according to Comair. The person said that DTW was opening on the same day and several pilots at Comair say that they have been told the same thing. The pilot said that most people at Comair affected by this were happy, and all of them that I know are happy about the change for several reasons related to commuting. The person said they were taking the ATP Written and that was true. This person also said that most furloughed pilots had been recalled and they have been by all reports. This person also expressed the opinion that they are expecting hiring to take place in October of November. True, all of it.

What is your point here and why all the drama? Do you KNOW something you want to share with us? Source it and share it man. Why start talking trash about anyone? You seem to know Paul T, why don't you man up and call him if you have a beef? ATP's number is all over the place. I'm sure he would be glad to talk with you about it if you know something that he doesn't.
 
You really don't think jealousy effects an opinion? I'm not talking you specifically, but it's defiantly prevalent in flight training.
 
I dunno. I think I can safely say without an oince of duplicity that I have never felt an ounce, nay, an iota of envy for Aviation grads per se. Now, in my old age I've realized that they're not automatically DBs, either. But I still don't think 'envy' has ever been even marginally in the picture. I can, of course, only speak for myself, as always.
 
crfguy51 said:
Jealousy? Or at least part of it... some is well directed.
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I think it has more to do with the fact that if you have 55k you are guaranteed a job, site unseen. Generally, this is bad from both ATP and the the students' perspective.

If something happens where the employment doesn't workout for whatever reason, the student feels ripped off. It also puts ATP in the position of hiring less desirable and less qualified candidates than they would otherwise have.
 
mojo6911 said:
It also puts ATP in the position of hiring less desirable and less qualified candidates than they would otherwise have.
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I think that's where the two week "Instructor Standardization" comes into play. At least... I hope it would. From what I read... if you don't pass that, then ATP will work with you via additional ground, FTD, etc... but the price you pay is office work while honing your CFI skills for the field.

I'm thinking maybe some who don't pass "standardization" for a long time... may just up and quit or be bound to the office for 6 months. It may be an easy choice for some... but not so much for others. Especially in this economic market.

Bob
 
hroose said:
They also said I would be able to be put on as an instructor upon completion of their CFI program. In fact hearing the words "we need people all over the country!" is what convinced me to choose them for my CFI training. When I got out of the program, I sent them my resume, a follow up email a month later saying I was still interested and willing to move anywhere in the country, and I left a voicemail with 2 managers. None of them had the courtesy to write or call me back, not even the manager who signed me up. I would've been happy with a simple "we can't place you" or "we don't want you". I trusted my career and my money with this company, so ANY response would've been appreciated. After being pushed back on their schedule and the program ending up taking 2 months instead of 2 weeks, I felt they owed me a LITTLE help at getting me a job, but they simply DON'T CARE. They got my money, they completely fooled me with their selling tactics and false promises, and I was naive enough to fall for it. Meanwhile, finding work with 0 hours dual given is nearly impossible in this economy.

You live, you learn.
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Same with me, although they screwed me out of my CFII. So now I end up way in debt no Instructor job and a CFI and MEI. Not just as adverstied. BEWARE of ATP!
 
mojo6911 said:
I think it has more to do with the fact that if you have 55k you are guaranteed a job, site unseen. Generally, this is bad from both ATP and the the students' perspective.

If something happens where the employment doesn't workout for whatever reason, the student feels ripped off. It also puts ATP in the position of hiring less desirable and less qualified candidates than they would otherwise have.
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That was my thinking.
 
mojo6911 said:
I think it has more to do with the fact that if you have 55k you are guaranteed a job, site unseen. Generally, this is bad from both ATP and the the students' perspective.

If something happens where the employment doesn't workout for whatever reason, the student feels ripped off. It also puts ATP in the position of hiring less desirable and less qualified candidates than they would otherwise have.
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I wasn't so much talking about ATP specifically, or this situation. And in some cases the criticism is warranted. Just commenting to the broad comment above the jealousy or "envy" might be the root of some aviation hate..not directed at any particular poster or subject in this thread.

From what I heard people not "up to speed" would be hitting the phones while they either figure things out or go elsewhere. From my brief experience with ATP it seems like they have no problems letting slacking hopeful/current instructors walk, and I would be shocked if ATP didn't have some language stating that they can terminate the agreement if you cant make it through standardization after some "extra work", maybe a leave or go to the phones for 6 months deal?


Who knows? Who cares really unless you're an ATP student eligible for the guarantee? I don't think the company will sacrifice the quality of instruction to meet the "guarantee", I think they'll make more training available or offer a job answering phones for 6
months.


As far as the "students being pissed off" I'm sure that will happen. That will probably be the ones most effected by the job guarantee...and I'd bet 99% would be the slacker types who showed up late through training, failed a few check-rides, and didn't show up prepared to standardization. Of course they're going to be pissed when they don't get a flying gig because in their mind "they work as hard as they can"....
 
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