Guaranteed Job with ATP?

popaviator

popaviator

Well-Known Member
I noticed on the website that they are now guaranteeing graduates a job placement with the company after completing the Airline Career Pilot Program. To me it seems like they are going to be way overstaffed. What do you guys think about this?
 
Guaranteed job manning the phones.

To quote a great movie...

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.
Tommy: Well, that's...
Tommy, Richard Hayden: ...What?
 
Murdoughnut said:
Guaranteed job manning the phones.

To quote a great movie...

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.
Tommy: Well, that's...
Tommy, Richard Hayden: ...What?
Click to expand...





CLOSE THREAD NOW- NO OTHER RESPONSE THAN THIS ONE CAN DO THIS THREAD ANYMORE JUSTICE!!!!!!! :yup::clap::clap::clap:
 
Murdoughnut said:
Guaranteed job manning the phones.

To quote a great movie...

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.
Tommy: Well, that's...
Tommy, Richard Hayden: ...What?
Click to expand...


:rotfl:
 
In my opinion, it is always disappointing when we have to sit back and watch as a "reputable" aviation name mis-advertises and basically perpetrates fraud. Sad. :(
 
sdfcvoh said:
In my opinion, it is always disappointing when we have to sit back and watch as a "reputable" aviation name mis-advertises and basically perpetrates fraud. Sad. :(
Click to expand...
What? Where is the fraud?

I've seen them offer this several times over the past 8 years. The offer comes and goes depending on need. I know AE picked up a few dozen CFI's and I'm sure there will be more, so they will be in a need position.

I just looked at their website and I see only one reason why one would be anywhere close to being an office jockey... and that if you didn't pass their two week Instructor Proficiency Program. Even then... they are still working with you to get you into the field... but I would assume that if you chose to up and leave at that time because you thought it was a raw deal... then more power to you. Especially knowing that you effectively got paid for those two weeks and built several more hours of Multi-Time to boot.

It seems pretty straight forward. Maybe I'm missing your meaning of "fraud".

ATP website said:
All instructor candidates will attend an Instructor Proficiency training program in Jacksonville, Florida for approximately two weeks. Candidates who demonstrate the highest level of aptitude will be placed into multi-engine and single-engine flight instructor positions. Candidates who need additional preparation will be offered ground school, simulator instructor, and scheduling positions while continuing to build proficiency. All instructors earn approximately $2,000 per month, which includes $300 to $500 in performance bonuses.
Click to expand...
 
They also said I would be able to be put on as an instructor upon completion of their CFI program. In fact hearing the words "we need people all over the country!" is what convinced me to choose them for my CFI training. When I got out of the program, I sent them my resume, a follow up email a month later saying I was still interested and willing to move anywhere in the country, and I left a voicemail with 2 managers. None of them had the courtesy to write or call me back, not even the manager who signed me up. I would've been happy with a simple "we can't place you" or "we don't want you". I trusted my career and my money with this company, so ANY response would've been appreciated. After being pushed back on their schedule and the program ending up taking 2 months instead of 2 weeks, I felt they owed me a LITTLE help at getting me a job, but they simply DON'T CARE. They got my money, they completely fooled me with their selling tactics and false promises, and I was naive enough to fall for it. Meanwhile, finding work with 0 hours dual given is nearly impossible in this economy.

You live, you learn.
 
Gonzo said:
This is the same company that has this on their wed site: http://www.pilotjobs.com/2010/08/captain-upgrade-news-from-comair.html#more


About Comair
Click to expand...
From what I understand... that page is nothing more than a blog. The information may have been current at the time it was written. But it looks like it just came from a line pilot at Comair and not ATP. It seems like the other info she shared with ATP came to fruition...

This industry changes continuously. I'm sure you that if you searched you'll find a blog out there where ATP's prices are several thousand dollars less and ExpressJet is hiring a majority of their instructors, or that Eagle is hiring at 400TT and offering you the base of your choice. Heck... that information is here on JC and search-able. It doesn't mean any of the parties are throwing out false info... just outdated info that we all must take into account when we are doing our research.
 
hroose said:
In fact hearing the words "we need people all over the country!" is what convinced me to choose them for my CFI training.
Click to expand...
Hearing the words... vs. having it writing...

hroose said:
You live, you learn.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:That's it exactly. I'd like to think it's been covered ad-nauseum on this forum and others... but research is key to pursuing your dreams as well as a good dose of legal-eze and CYA. Especially when your hard earned money and your time is at stake.

It's crazy the amount of flight schools that have closed up shop and taken the student's money right along with them, while the students have no leg to stand on due to not getting training deals in writing.

I feel bad for you, hroose. I really do. But there are CFI job's to be had... especially if you are still willing to relocate. Heck, my Initial CFI went from Scottsdale to Portland Maine for his first CFI gig.

Keep the research up and don't let this bump in the road stop you.

Bob

PS: Beer's on me if you are still around in DFW.
 
Douglas,

I'm not stating anything that isn't factual on here... you're certainly welcome to contradict me. If so... then I'll reveal my flavor. But only then... ;)

Bob

kool-aid.jpg
 
Thank you for the kind words Captain_Bob.
After how they've treated me throughout the entire program and knowing very well there's no chance they'll hire me, I don't see why I shouldn't get my story out, and I have a lot of stories on these "professionals".
They made me go to one of 3 locations and I chose Atlanta. One of the instructors thought it was totally ok to yell at his students if they did something wrong, saying it "encouraged learning". I don't know about you but I don't care to spend $7000 to be yelled at. There are different more courteous ways of pointing out a mistake. No one in my class liked flying with him, and everyone told me he was yelling at all my classmates.
During the 2 week program, I wasn't scheduled to do even my initial MEI checkride in Ft Lauderdale, and I was paying a hotel by the night. They wouldn't let me go home, until I offered one of my airmiles tickets to fly out of Dallas instead of Atlanta (which was a huge mistake). This was on wednesday in the 3d week, 3 days after I should've left already with a CFI/CFII/MEI. I finally got to do my initial MEI checkride on a friday 4 weeks after I started the program, and passed. The examiner said I did really well. I flew back to Dallas and talked to the Arlington office about finishing my CFII and CFI training there, since there was no way in hell I would pay another week of accommodation in Atlanta. My experience in Arlington was a complete disaster as well. They kept pushing me back on the schedule for no good reason. I would hear the instructor say "we're completely booked this week" more times than I cared to hear. You have to understand, there was a reason I chose a fast-track program, because I hadn't flown in a long time. I chose this program because I wanted to be as proficient as possible by flying every day until the day of the checkride. By pushing me back on the schedule I felt completely uncomfortable in the Seminole. For the CFI add-on I got one hour of training and we got through everything except the power off 180s. The next day I screwed up my power off 180 by landing 300 feet too far. A maneuver I did well on my commercial check ride (right on the blocks). I asked the examiner if I could do it again but he wouldn't let me. My first bust ever, and I had never failed an exam or a check ride in my life so this was a big deal for me... Then for my CFII the manager actually told me "the instructor who signed you off for your checkride? I was his instructor, and he failed his checkride the first time.". First of all, you're a manager, a professional. Why are you telling ME about my flight instructor's performance during a checkride? It's none of my business, it's NO one's business. I would hate it if my instructor was telling people about me busting a checkride. The schedule for the CFII training and checkride was the same old story. "We're trying to get everyone in before the 4th of july weekend so you can't do your checkride yet", by the way, I started the 2 week program on April 26th so now we're at July 4th. You'd think by now they'd push someone else back and make me a priority. Nope!
I finally got to do my exam, got my CFI/CFII/MEI and immediately sent my resume and got absolutely no response whatsoever. Not to my resume, or my follow up email or my phone calls. I really feel they had it out for me... I don't know how else to take it.

I just remembered something else. When I was in Atlanta, I was hanging out in the area in the back of the school. Two flamboyantly gay men (I'm assuming) walked in to talk to an instructor about becoming private pilots. The instructor was acting like a complete prick with a smirk on his face, giving them information on the career program, which is not what they asked for. Almost like he intentionally was unwilling to give them correct information (homophobia in aviation, who knew!) They left confused, and a minute after they left all instructors were in the instructor room making fun of the couple, throwing limp wristed hand gestures and speaking with a lisp and any other gay stereotype you can think of. These are the "professionals" that train you to airline standards people.

You know, I don't even know why I considered working for these clowns, for a company that treated me the way they did and that pays you enough to be able to afford Ramen Noodles and that makes you work 7 days a week. I don't want to be part of such a business.

ATP'ers, go ahead and shoot your hate mail, I'm just giving you my experiences. If this school has treated you right, I'm glad for you. They didn't treat me right at all, not once.

Regardless... Captain_Bob, where do pilots go for a beer in the DFW area?
 
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I'm just upset I never got any.
 
It all depends on the pace of industry. I went to ATP for my CFIs in 07 and was immediately hired after sending in my resume, and everyone that completed their career program was hired as well.
 
phoenix 23684 said:
It all depends on the pace of industry. I went to ATP for my CFIs in 07 and was immediately hired after sending in my resume, and everyone that completed their career program was hired as well.
Click to expand...

And the pace of the industry right now is such that can't support a guarantee of hiring people. Since they can wash you out of Instructor Proficiency Program, I don't think they will be overstaffed. I would hate to be the poor sap that washes out after doing all of his training at ATP:

ATP: Well, you don't really have what it takes to instruct at ATP.
Sap: Um, you guys trained me.
ATP: Good luck in the future.
 
hroose said:
Regardless... Captain_Bob, where do pilots go for a beer in the DFW area?
Click to expand...
Where are you located?? I'm in S. Arlington... lots of places around here. Also there's several Meet and Greets that happen around here from time to time... almost once a month it seems.

I just ate dinner at the Hard 8 BBQ with MusketeerMan while he was overnighting here. And the last M&G involved sailing on Mad Doggy Dog's boat on Lake Lewisville.

Let's hook up sometime!
 
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