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Different max, no radial line
Green vs Magenta needle on VOR Approach
- Thread starter Shiftace
- Start date
Different max, no radial line
inigo88
Composite-lover
Have you compared FMS firmware versions between the ones that do and the ones that don’t? I’m grasping at straws but it might be an option that was snuck in on a certain version vs something that can be toggled on and off.
yeah maybe U13 vs 14, I think they started installing 14 again after they fixed all the scary bugs. idr what it was doing but serious enough to move the whole fleet back to 13 and I never fly the max so I never cared to learn
Shiftace
s***posting with decency. trolling with integrity.
I am resurrecting this thread as I now have more questions. Is WAAS a requirement for using magenta needle? Or can one fly with WAAS disabled??
Reason I ask - the examiner we have been using turns off WAAS when students are doing RNAV approaches to circling or LNAV mins. Per DPE, he has to take away vertical guidance. So he disables WAAS. However, if students do the VOR approach after and fly with magenta needles - bearing pointer is up - DPE says it is unacceptable as WAAS was disabled.
Reason I ask - the examiner we have been using turns off WAAS when students are doing RNAV approaches to circling or LNAV mins. Per DPE, he has to take away vertical guidance. So he disables WAAS. However, if students do the VOR approach after and fly with magenta needles - bearing pointer is up - DPE says it is unacceptable as WAAS was disabled.
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
Holy crap. That’s not Tidy is it? Did they verify RAIM performance? I say no it’s not required. You can fly without waas you just can’t shoot certain “precision” type approaches. A VOR approach is a non-waas certified approach so it shouldn’t matter.
Not sure I can point to a page in the AIM without some digging.
Shiftace
s***posting with decency. trolling with integrity.
I like how you asked if it was Tiday. It is not. Tiday is pretty chill - and has been doing the same 3 approaches since 2012. He even takes kids down to KEWK for the ILS ... as he says you cannot do RNAV with LPV mins for the checkride.
This is a new examiner. He told me the source for this WAAS business is in the Instrument Flying Handbook. I could not find it in there. So yeah....
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
I heard he gave the FAA the middle finger and quit a while back. Glad to hear he’s back at it. He gave me my Double I ride.I like how you asked if it was Tiday. It is not. Tiday is pretty chill - and has been doing the same 3 approaches since 2012. He even takes kids down to KEWK for the ILS ... as he says you cannot do RNAV with LPV mins for the checkride.
This is a new examiner. He told me the source for this WAAS business is in the Instrument Flying Handbook. I could not find it in there. So yeah....
If you’re doing the VOR approach, change to green needles. Screw the overlay crap, fly the ground based Nav approach using ground based Navaids, and none of this will be an issue.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
I did my instrument ride in a G-1000, DA-40. It didn't have WAAS, or RAIM.
As @MikeD said just do it green needles. I did.
Shiftace
s***posting with decency. trolling with integrity.
I have always thought green needles. Well, magenta till after procedure turn then switch to green before FAF inbound.
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Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
This is the way. That guy is crazy. I’ve gone through the IFH and don’t know where he’s coming from.
Shiftace
s***posting with decency. trolling with integrity.
Not just thought, but also taught.
If it’s a ground based approach procedure, then fly green needles throughout the whole thing. Leave the magenta to the GPS based approaches. If anything, it gets you back to some basics of instrument flying rather than following some magenta line. I make my pilots do ground based approaches raw data and not allow them to load them in the Garmin, as I want them to not have that skill set atrophy and be forgotten.
ahw01
Well-Known Member
So you passed right
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
Because it isn’t realistic to 98% of what students will see once they leave the school house.
It’s back to basics, keeps one sharper than just following magenta lines; which any nitwit can do, or autopilot can do.
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
Lol green needles are no different. I can follow a straight line no matter what the color.
Talking Raw data Green needles where you actually have to twist the CDI. They don’t just auto sequence for you with all the new waypoints. Instruments has gotten lazy.
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
And again 98% of the jobs out there aren’t operating equipment where this is a requirement. There are no basics if the approaches no longer exist. None of the podunk fields I go to have them and the big airports won’t let you shoot one. It no longer serves a purpose in the professional aviation world to shoot complete raw data vor approaches.
Ironically, did the NDB 31 to PIA the other week.
Same for ILS, I do them green needles, ground based approach.