Got the call, offered the job and said thanks, but no thanks

killbilly said:
Did you have the intention of turning them down from the beginning? Or were you open to the idea of actually working for them?

I can see why you'd want interview experience - it's important. But if you had no intention of working for them, you fundamentally wasted their time. I get that it's part of the process of hiring, but if they never had a chance with you, it's a bit....off-putting, I guess.
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People do practice interviews all the time. I know plenty of people that have applied for jobs they really had no intention of accepting an offer for, but wanted the interview experience. Sorta like a sim ride :) The experience really does help a LOT when you actually go in for interviews that you want to nail. Practicing in the mirror just isn't the same as having the real pressure.
 
killbilly said:
Did you have the intention of turning them down from the beginning? Or were you open to the idea of actually working for them?
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I consider interviews as much for me interviewing the company as for them interviewing me. I don't see anything wrong with interviewing at a place you don't really intend to work, any more than it would be wrong for an employer to interview an applicant who looks mediocre on paper, yet the HR department says, "Ehh, probably not going to hire him, but we'll give him a shot."

The OP gave Great Lakes a chance to impress him, and they didn't. That's their fault, not his.

One of my pet peeves is how many pilots show up to interviews with a "Pick me! Pick me!" attitude. It doesn't matter what the pay/QOL is like, since they'll accept any offer thrown their way.

Kinda reminds me of girls lining up at the BunnyRanch, waiting for a client to pick them. WAY too one-sided.
 
Ajax BU said:
I was really hoping to want the job if the offer came my way. I got to read the training contract and wasn't too pleased with the wording of it.
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Was it the non paid training and $7500 payment for leaving under any circumstances that created some doubt on their intentions?
 
Ajax BU said:
I know Great Lakes has a terrible reputation here and I wouldn't be surprised if people berated me for even interviewing.
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Not only is it none of other people's business as to why you wanted to interview with GL but you shouldn't have to justify your actions to anyone other than yourself. I find myself at a juncture of staying at my sinking regional, starting over at another regional, or going to a non sched freight job... I have confided with close colleagues and have asked their opinion but the decision is my own and no one elses. I have made my own bed and will have to deal with the consequences whether they be good or bad. If you were to ask me I would tell you that you should take advantage of any interview you can get as you never know when this industry will take a hard left turn on you. Best of luck to you!
 
I am not going to pick on you for your reasoning to go or not go to Lakes, but with the wealth of information on here about Great Lakes you didn't have to interview there to figure out it wasn't for you for the reason you stated in this thread. I flew at Great Lakes, and out of about 5 guys below 1000TT, only one person didn't wash out so I wouldn't think that your over qualified for the position...if anything, statistics are probably less in your favor.

In my opinion, hiring has slowed down at the airlines over the late spring and summer. With all the Comair pilots going to the streets in the next few months, entry level airline jobs will be even probably be more difficult to find for the near future. With as volatile as our industry is, anything could happen one way or the other so really trying to predict the future is difficult.

I would chose not to go back to Great Lakes for different reasons. If I were single with no kids, Lakes wouldn't be a bad place to be. You fly a lot, you upgrade quickly. The experience is very good. I remember going to outstations and it almost felt like flying GA again, then you get to go into DEN, LAX, or LAS and feel like an airline pilot (kinda). You learn some great fundamentals of CRM. Anyone that discredits Lakes experience is a blind moron. So very so to upset anyones delicate sensibilities, but unless you have flown or fly at GLA you have no reason to talk about what you think you know like its a personal experience. And get over yourselves and your soap boxes about the industry and pay. Trust me, I believe what goes around comes around, and Lakes will get theirs (and unless theres some changes, I look forward to the day).

Reasons not to go to GLA:
Equipment is aging and failing with no suitable 19 seat replacement
No money to replace the old and failing equipement
Poor management and leadership (especially at the very top)
Terrible first year pay (but if you can survive off it then this doesn't really apply to you)
The pilots fed up with the poor compensation and QOL and currently on a cooling off period in the contract negotiations, if released from arbitration, IMO I don't see the company lasting long if there was a strike.

Reasons to go to GLA:
GREAT EXPERIENCE, two former captains at GLA recently just started class at Alaska Airlines. There are also former Lakers at Spirit, Virgin, Southwest, FedEx and I am sure many other airlines (the ones I list specifically I know for sure because I know the people personally).
A relatively short upgrade time, right now it looks to be around 14-16 months.
You will make some great friends.
You will fly a lot.
Great flying in some really awesome locations. They also do go some places that do stink (literally stink, Garden City, Hayes, etc. airport is surrounded by farms and it smells from the moment you are on final.)
Denver, Cheyenne, Prescott, are really nice places to be based. I would love to live in Cheyenne some day.
The pilot union is doing a better job of standing up for the pilots than in the past, I expect them to continue to improve and stick to their guns about issues with pay and QOL, I wouldn't be surprised if there was to be some positive changes by the end of the year.

I really think going to Lakes is a decision which depends heavily on your personal situation. If you have a family and dont live in a base, its really difficult with the schedules to have a decent family life. I speak from experience with that one as I commuted from DFW to Cheyenne. Also, family benefits will cost you over half your paycheck, so take that into consideration if you need healthcare for yourself and family. Since the outstation bases are small, you really get to know everyone and a lot of the single folks who usually commuted home when based in DEN started staying around and hanging out with each other on their days off. If you commute, commuting from DEN is obviously the best decision, there are many of flights and you don't have to depend on GLA to get to your base. Also, when I did commute, many of the flight crews were very nice and respectful. I sat in the cockpit probably 75% of the time and we always talked about the industry and GLA. Every crew though told me the same thing; stick with it, it will pay off in the long run. I unfortunately couldn't support the family after my wife lost her job, and waiting for a upgrade was not going to be acceptable risk for me when I had a good local opportunity available. I was never scolded for my position with GLA, in fact, many crews told me the experience was excellent. On more than one occasion a crew said I could probably hand fly raw data their airplane than they could (lots of automation on the fancy airbus and ERJ and I took that as a form of encouragement to keep up the good fight and to not be discouraged). I also found that many of those pilots if they were not military, flew some pretty crappy jobs too. It was about what got you to that next step, not necessarily all the bells and whistles to a job that they thought they were entitled to. IMO, the early days of flying were also really rough, imagine flying during WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Airline pilots were war heroes and those were the golden days where you would wear your uniform proudly and be asked for your signature. I think an important part of our industry is accepting that things are different today and will continue to evolve. Instead of being divided about pay and benefits, we should be accepting and supportive to unite each other in our profession rather than separate and divide. You can not expect people to want to come together as a group when your bashing them as an individual or the decisions they make.

Probably the wrong place for this kind of post, but theres always some bashing when it comes to Lakes. When I can, I want to give the best truth I know based upon my real personal experience so that those who are trying to progress can do so with a little better understanding than only hearing from all the Shrek's of the forum forest.
 
It's sad when people in this industry view crew time in a single pilot airplane, in an environment that really isn't all that challenging, as the gold standard.
 
Well depending on the FO you are single pilot. I could talk all day about lakes but why bother doesn't change anything. Do what u wanna do bud if u have any questions feel free too pm
 
Thank you for taking the time to write a long and detailed post.

I think much of the criticism directed toward Lakes comes from comparing it to other career choices. I chose to fly freight, I have a personal knowledge of that, so let's use AMF as an example. The key here is that it's a different industry. AMF isn't a great company in the sector, and nor is it the worst.

You need 1200 hours to get hired.

You'll start in a chieftain earning as much as a five year Great Lakes Captain.

You'll upgrade quickly. Six months to a 99 and start getting some Turbine PIC. 14-16 months you can expect to be flying single pilot in a 1900 or Metro, earning more than any line pilot at Lakes. Some are going to the Metro in less than a year.

Just like Lakes, AMF isn't a career destination, it's a stepping stone to something else. This is the important thing. Forget pay or QOL. How quickly will Lakes or AMF further your career goals? AMF get's you Turbine PIC sooner. It gets you crew experience, with the FO's on the turbines. It should get you at least as much flight time. I averaged 80-90 hours a month flying freight. Neither job offers security, but that's not something we care about. AMF also gives you the option of career destinations outside the airlines. Single Pilot IFR freight is what a lot of companies look for. The EMS industry, for example, is dominated by freight pilots, and many companies will not hire from airline backgrounds at all. Eighteen months to two years at AMF will get your resume to a lot of companies. I think you'd need to spend five at Lakes to have a reasonable shot at moving on to a real job, and then you are far more limited.
 
All valid points but the upgrade here all depends on the person and how quick they wanna get out of here. 6-10 months till upgrade happens if you came in with 1000tt. There are very few people who stay here for 5 years. Good group of guys/gals here is the best thing I can say
 
All great points! And very important when considering the best step to take in your career path. I actually really wish I could have had a opportunity to fly single pilot IFR flying cargo. But, when I applied when I had the hours there were no jobs locally to be had. I did end up flying cargo anyways on the Falcon 20 making more than twice what I did at Lakes. I would have never been considered for the job with the 1400TT without the experience I got at Lakes. Just because it may not work out in even the long run, when opportunities come around, the experience will definitely help you move forward.
 
jhugz said:
It's sad when people in this industry view crew time in a single pilot airplane, in an environment that really isn't all that challenging, as the gold standard.
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Its not a gold standard, but its valuable experience. Besides, there are plenty of people logging SIC on single pilot airplanes because of OpSpecs or insurance. While insurance doesn't qualify it in my opinion or research, people still do it.
 
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