Going into ERAU w. no flight time.

[FalconCapt]

[ QUOTE ]
And you are also right that DB and PC are two definately different campuses. There really isn't much that is the same between them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which campus did you go to???

I went to PRC, know a LOT of current students and graduates from PRC... I can't speak for DAB, but most students went through PRC without a problem. Maybe you were at DAB...

 

[RiddlePilot]

[ QUOTE ]
It is very intense and requires a lot of studying. The instructors really teach you what you need to know, if you want to know more about something you need to ask the instructor or find the information yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's great and all, but ERAU is the same way. What's the difference at ATP?

 

[project7]

ATP doesn't have jaguars in the parking lot

 

[RiddlePilot]

Riddle has Jaguars in the parking lot? Where? Next to my beater pickup?

I suggest you get your facts straight before you start spouting off any "rich-boy" propaganda. The vast vast majority of us are making it through school on boxed mac n'cheese dinners and a mountain of loans. Money is always tight, like 99% of the folks that go here will tell you.

 

[FalconCapt]

[ QUOTE ]
Riddle has Jaguars in the parking lot? Where? Next to my beater pickup?

I suggest you get your facts straight before you start spouting off any "rich-boy" propaganda. The vast vast majority of us are making it through school on boxed mac n'cheese dinners and a mountain of loans. Money is always tight, like 99% of the folks that go here will tell you.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct... For every one or two "rich kids" at Riddle there are 200 "average Joe's"... Get your facts straight...

BTW, All-ATP's has their own issues... There is more than meets the eyes... It is known as a "Pilot Factory"... You pay your money you get your ratings, nearly guaranteed... If you know what I mean...

 

[flyn_ace_99]

[ QUOTE ]
All-ATP's has their own issues... There is more than meets the eyes... It is known as a "Pilot Factory"... You pay your money you get your ratings, nearly guaranteed... If you know what I mean...


[/ QUOTE ]

hmm... and ER isn't? That is definately news to me and the rest of the world. As far as most people are concerned, unless you are a small flight school such as Skyschool, you are a pilot factory. ATP students don't buy our ratings (as you so distastefully insinuate), we work our butts off for them. Our examiners are known to be one of the hardest, but most fair in the business. Every school has issues, but of the 2 I have been to, I would say that the problems at ER far exceed those at the school I am at now.

I did go to PRC campus... you said that you graduated 7 years ago... well, lots chages in 7 years. Like I said, we have definately had this conversation before, my stance and your stance hasn't changed, it probably never will.

Once again, my disclaimer: this is my experience, as well as the experience of many others that I know. I call it like I see it, and until I am shown otherwise, my views will not change. Good luck to those in the program. For those searching for flight schools... do your homework on ALL of them. Ask questions, get answers and make sure you are asking the right people ( current and previous students are a good idea, especially those who are not currently being paid by the school).

Happy flying everyone... make sure you are always enjoying it!

 

[project7]

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest you get your facts straight before you start spouting off any "rich-boy" propaganda. The vast vast majority of us are making it through school on boxed mac n'cheese dinners and a mountain of loans. Money is always tight, like 99% of the folks that go here will tell you.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, I went there for 2 1/2 years. As much as I loved serving riddle-diddles and digging fountains, after awhile I just couldn't stand it anymore. "propaganda" is false information, and there is nothing false about the ridiculous tuition costs of that place.
And yes there are jaguars in the parking lot. They might be hidden behind a lexus or a land rover though.

 

[RiddlePilot]

[ QUOTE ]
hmm... and ER isn't?

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait a second. I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from here. First, you say that you didn't make it through the program due to whatever reason, and then you go saying that ERAU is a "pilot factory"? We pay and are guaranteed ratings? Huh? I'm confused.

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, I went there for 2 1/2 years. As much as I loved serving riddle-diddles and digging fountains, after awhile I just couldn't stand it anymore. "propaganda" is false information, and there is nothing false about the ridiculous tuition costs of that place.
And yes there are jaguars in the parking lot. They might be hidden behind a lexus or a land rover though.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right: tuition is terrible here. That's why I used the phrase "mountain of loans" on my previous post. Since you spent 2-1/2 years here at one time or another, why don't ya go ahead and enlighten me on aaaaaaaall of the Lexus', Land Rovers, and Jaguars that you've seen. I've been here for 3 years and all I seem to see are a solid amount of "average joe" cars and trucks (to steal FalconCapt's phrase). I personally pay rent and bills with loan money. Any expendable income comes from poker, which is as much of a daily grind as anything else. You won't see guy like me (the majority of folks) laughing it up at Outback every night.

 

[FalconCapt]

[ QUOTE ]
you said that you graduated 7 years ago... well, lots chages in 7 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said that... I graduated nearly 14 years ago...

I know things change, but I currently have a VERY good friend who is graduating from there in 6 weeks... I also have a couple other friends who are Juniors. I keep up on the current issues going on at the school.

It is human nature when people fail at something they tend to look for an "outside" reason to blame for their failing. It is a very difficult thing to look at yourself and realize the reason you failed was brought on by yourself.

 

[flyn_ace_99]

If you read correctly you would find that I didn't say that "pilot factories" buy thier ratings... You did. I simply said that ER was also a pilot factory. Anything that isn't "Joe Schmo's FBO" is a pilot factory... would you like more examples??? FLIGHT SAFEY, PAN AM ACADEMY, COMAIR ACADEMY, WESTWIND FLIGHT ACADEMY... Notice the trend?

After graduating from ER 14 years ago, I believe you have experienced the service that ER has a reputation for and I see reason for you to feel you have to defend them. However, that does not give you the right to demean a person who has a differing opinion due to a much different experience. I know the success stories, and I applaud them. But I have also seen those who have had problems and I know that it wasn't all their fault. You need to do more talking to those who haven't done well before you speak poorly of them.

Once again... this is getting old, but I won't stand for someone looking down at me or others without knowing their situations. This forum is meant to exchange information respectfully so that people can learn from the experiences of others. I am just telling things like I see them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Good luck everyone, happy flying! "Keep your nose up in the turn!"

 

[SteveC]

FalconCapt wrote:[ QUOTE ]
It is human nature when people fail at something they tend to look for an "outside" reason to blame for their failing. It is a very difficult thing to look at yourself and realize the reason you failed was brought on by yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
You, my friend, are a pit bull. You have dug in your teeth and ain't lettin' go.

Some people refuse to give up when they're wrong. Others refuse to drop the issue when they *know* they are right and want an admission from the one who is wrong.

It takes a big person to do neither of those things.

 

[FalconCapt]

[ QUOTE ]
FalconCapt wrote:[ QUOTE ]
It is human nature when people fail at something they tend to look for an "outside" reason to blame for their failing. It is a very difficult thing to look at yourself and realize the reason you failed was brought on by yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
You, my friend, are a pit bull. You have dug in your teeth and ain't lettin' go.

Some people refuse to give up when they're wrong. Others refuse to drop the issue when they *know* they are right and want an admission from the one who is wrong.

It takes a big person to do neither of those things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you post something more original, you used the same boring line on the "Eagle" thread...

 

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
Could you post something more original, you used the same boring line on the "Eagle" thread...

[/ QUOTE ]There's irony in that, don't you think?

 

[FalconCapt]

[ QUOTE ]
a person who has a differing opinion due to a much different experience. I know the success stories, and I applaud them. But I have also seen those who have had problems and I know that it wasn't all their fault. You need to do more talking to those who haven't done well before you speak poorly of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have talked to people who have had issues with flying while at Riddle... I even went out and flew with 2 different people my Senior year after I had my CFI/CFI-I/CFI-ME to see if I could give them a fresh perspective. Both had a huge desire to fly, but neither did well, they were both far behind the airplane. Was it their "fault"... depends on how you assign "fault"... They both studied hard, they both loved to fly, they both dedicated many hours to trying to learn the procedures and flows. But when the movie started to roll, they couldn't keep up... They would become tunnel-visioned on the task at hand... Anything that grabbed their attention would cause them to loose sight of the other tasks that were required. The best analogy I have for this (not sure if you are working on your instrument yet) is when an Instrument student has "fixation" instead of continuing his/her instrument scan. These two individuals became "overwhelmed" when they had more than one or two tasks to deal with and would quickly fall behind in all tasks, this can lead to a highly dangerous situation, which should be very obvious.

So back to the "fault" issue... Was it their "fault"? Was it Riddles "fault"? Probably neither... These people can not help how they "operate", just having a burning desire is sometimes not enough if a person doesn't have the skill set/mental capacity for that particular task (i.e. flying a plane). A person could be a genius, but when put into a complex, multi-tasked situation of flying a plane, may not be able to do it. Just because a person can not fly, doesn't say anything about that persons knowledge, intelligence or ability. What it does say is in that particular required skill set, that person does not excel to the level required for safe operation.

As far as "Riddle" having fault... Forget it, it isn't their fault... They have a program set up that has been and is very successful (I am speaking from past AND present knowledge of the situtation)... They set the bar at a certain level and you can either get over it or not... They should NOT lower the bar just because someone is struggling, if someone is struggling then maybe they have chosen a program that isn't suitable for their ability.

I have known of several pilots (beyond Riddle) who have "fallen through the cracks"... They were very marginal pilots, but because they were "a nice guy" or "tried really hard" sometimes the instructor looked the other way when things were weak... no one likes to be the bearer of bad news, so they pass the buck and the problem is no longer theirs... Yeah they got the pat on the back and told "they'd be fine" and all that crap because no one had the cahones to tell them that maybe this wasn't for them... Instead they just all looked the other way figuring they'd be fine, not wanting to break these peoples hearts... Well these instructors can rest assured they didn't break these peoples hearts... They stopped them cold... 3 of theses "through the cracks" pilots are dead...

If a professional program like Riddle tells me I have no business being a pilot, I would take a long, hard look at myself as a whole before venturing further. Remember it is in Riddles best interest to keep you as a student (they ARE a business), they don't make money by turning away students. Better to be disappointed and alive than to follow the footsteps of some other unfortunate souls.

Aviation is a place where ambiguity does not belong. Straight, clear and concise facts are what is required in this type of industry. Consider it a "School of hard Knocks"... It will only get MUCH more difficult when you are no longer the "Customer"... So all the "coddling" a person might be enjoying during their training will quickly come to an end as soon as they stop writing the checks to fly... One of the biggest questions during an interview is to ask about a failure you have had... If you sit there and blame everything else except yourself you won't be getting the job... Then the fun begins...

Disclaimer: I don't know this Marilyn person, I am making generalized comments based upon what I have read on this board

 

[FalconCapt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could you post something more original, you used the same boring line on the "Eagle" thread...

[/ QUOTE ]There's irony in that, don't you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Marilyn getting booted from the board too?

Sorry pal, I'm not the touchy feely give a hug type of person... I tell it like it is, like it or not... If you want to go through life wearing rose colored glasses, so be it... You will be in for some pretty big surprises along the way... Especially in Aviation...

 

[Redbirdfan]

Wow folks, I think we're starting to get over-sensitive here...

Let's boil it down to this: Riddle has the best reputation in the industry for producing quality aviators, so they HAVE to be doing something right. Otherwise, companies like Eagle, ACA, ASA, Comair, NWA, etc. wouldn't come banging down the door when they need pilots. You can't lay down a blanket statement saying, "The flight department sucks" because you and a couple of folks you knew had trouble. (In statistics that's known as anecdotal evidence, and is inadmissable in court

) Falconcapt and I defend Riddle because we both had great experiences down there, as did most of our friends. (still anecdotal) The fact of the matter is, I got to thinking... So I called a buddy of mine who is an ATM at DAB. Officially, 86% of students who enroll in private flight get their certificates. That to me seems like a heck of a good success ratio. 88% receive their instrument tickets. 92% the commercial. Aviation is an unforgiving business, so if we leave 14% behind, it doesn't bother me one bit. I don't necessarily believe you're not a good pilot because of it, but when the system as a whole is so successfull, I think you have to own up to some of the blame.

 

[FalconCapt]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's boil it down to this: Riddle has the best reputation in the industry for producing quality aviators, so they HAVE to be doing something right. Otherwise, companies like Eagle, ACA, ASA, Comair, NWA, etc. wouldn't come banging down the door when they need pilots. You can't lay down a blanket statement saying, "The flight department sucks" because you and a couple of folks you knew had trouble. (In statistics that's known as anecdotal evidence, and is inadmissable in court

) Falconcapt and I defend Riddle because we both had great experiences down there, as did most of our friends. (still anecdotal) The fact of the matter is, I got to thinking... So I called a buddy of mine who is an ATM at DAB. Officially, 86% of students who enroll in private flight get their certificates. That to me seems like a heck of a good success ratio. 88% receive their instrument tickets. 92% the commercial. Aviation is an unforgiving business, so if we leave 14% behind, it doesn't bother me one bit. I don't necessarily believe you're not a good pilot because of it, but when the system as a whole is so successfull, I think you have to own up to some of the blame.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said...

 

[RiddlePilot]

[ QUOTE ]
If a professional program like Riddle tells me I have no business being a pilot, I would take a long, hard look at myself as a whole before venturing further. Remember it is in Riddles best interest to keep you as a student (they ARE a business), they don't make money by turning away students. Better to be disappointed and alive than to follow the footsteps of some other unfortunate souls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfectly said yourself.

 

[flyn_ace_99]

[ QUOTE ]
If a professional program like Riddle tells me I have no business being a pilot, I would take a long, hard look at myself as a whole before venturing further. Remember it is in Riddles best interest to keep you as a student (they ARE a business), they don't make money by turning away students.

[/ QUOTE ]

unless they feel they can fit another one, or two in his/her place. Obviously they don't make money buy turning away students, that is why groundschools are over filled and instructors have too many students and then the students fall between the cracks. They might not be making money on those students, but they will find others to take their place.

A professional program did tell me that I couldn't be a pilot. Looking back, that's pretty funny now that I am a pilot and doing quite well.

[ QUOTE ]
Aviation is a place where ambiguity does not belong. Straight, clear and concise facts are what is required in this type of industry. Consider it a "School of hard Knocks"... It will only get MUCH more difficult when you are no longer the "Customer"... So all the "coddling" a person might be enjoying during their training will quickly come to an end as soon as they stop writing the checks to fly...

[/ QUOTE ]

The most negative thing about the program (for me) was the flight line's lack of respect for me as a customer. Many comments that were made to me and my family were unprofessional and inacurrate. Although I paid to go there, It sure felt like they thought they were paying me to be there. Believe me, I wouldn't be nearly so negative about my experience if it weren't for that.

Like I said, these comments are based on my experience, I hope somebody can use my experience to know whether or not ER is the school for them. Once again... I call it like I see it.

 

[Redbirdfan]

Ok so now that we've beat this horse deader than Saddam's kids, can we all relax a bit? FalconCapt, thanx for sticking up for the old Alma-Mater. Flynace, you get a thumbs up for not quiting. Hope to see you on the line somewhere someday.