Go Around or Not?

[saxman]

Well I've gotten myself into a social media debate with non-pilots (don't judge) about whether this was a little close for comfort or not. It appears to me the A320 is over the threshold as the A330 begins it's rotation. This is in Sydney and may be normal ops. MSP is the only airport I can think of where they regularly keep them in tight, but I've never been over the approach lights or threshold as the aircraft in front of me is just lifting off. I also realize this is a video and it may appear closer than it is.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I'm not here to cast judgement, but it was ~4 seconds between departure wheels off and arrival wheels on.

 

[thevideographer]

Nope. I might go around if it's obviously going to be a conflict and ATC hasn't said anything. If they've been telling us to slow down or told the other plane to start their roll, or something to that effect, I'll trust that they are watching the situation and can judge their separation requirements a lot better than I can.

 

[derg]

Frankfurt is pretty notorious for that.

Your non-pilot friends opinion on the matter is moot.

I know it's 2017 and everyone feels they deserve to have their opinion on every subject but tell them to have a Coke and a smile.

 

[U_of_I_Tweak]

My understanding is there has to be 3000' separation between aircraft on the runway.

If you can't do something smart, do something right

 

[kaudbron]

3,000, 4,500, or in this case 6,000' in between needed for Same Runway Seperation (SRS). This does not include IFR requirements or local guidance, nor wake turbulence separation.

 

[Cptnchia]

Ask your non pilot friends what they do for a living, and then tell them you have some pilot friends who know more about their job and would like to critique how they do it. Let us know how well they take it.

 

[derg]

Ask your non pilot friends what they do for a living, and then tell them you have some pilot friends who know more about their job and would like to critique how they do it. Let us know how well they take it.

Do this now.

Report back.

Doctor: "Your obesity is causing your hypertension"
Patient o' the 2000's: "Oh, well, I'll just eat some Goji Berries, they're a 'super food', high in anti-oxidants and The Food Babe says that they'll lower blood pressure, the natural, VEGAN way"

@darrenf LOVES the Food Babe.

 

[Adler]

 

[darrenf]

Do this now.

Report back.

Doctor: "Your obesity is causing your hypertension"
Patient o' the 2000's: "Oh, well, I'll just eat some Goji Berries, they're a 'super food', high in anti-oxidants and The Food Babe says that they'll lower blood pressure, the natural, VEGAN way"

@darrenf LOVES the Food Babe.

I'm over her. She stopped returning my calls a long time ago. My new love is David Avocado Wolfe!

 

[Roger Roger]

I'm over her. She stopped returning my calls a long time ago. My new love is David Avocado Wolfe!

@Murdoughnut reposted something from him a few weeks ago without really knowing who he was. Crap was given.

 

[Corporate Pilot]

Not

 

[saxman]

Do this now.

Report back.

Doctor: "Your obesity is causing your hypertension"
Patient o' the 2000's: "Oh, well, I'll just eat some Goji Berries, they're a 'super food', high in anti-oxidants and The Food Babe says that they'll lower blood pressure, the natural, VEGAN way"

@darrenf LOVES the Food Babe.

Will try to troll again. It's already old news in the frequent flyer FB world and they've moved on to "omgrd, a crew member cut me in the security line!!!"


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[Screaming_Emu]

Nope.

By the time the landing aircraft is committed, the 330 has its nose in the air and, barring some really strange stuff, is going flying for sure.

 

[OneNineHundy]

Standard ops for Sydney. I would call it superb controlling. Pushing some tin!

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[mshunter]

I honestly couldn't tell ya if I'd go around. This is all I'm seeing.

 

[gotWXdagain]

I always keep reminding the medics in the back to make sure they realign the patient's chakras so they don't have to intubate, and make sure they put that on the run report.

 

[NovemberEcho]

I honestly couldn't tell ya if I'd go around. This is all I'm seeing.View attachment 37506

Same here

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Well I've gotten myself into a social media debate with non-pilots (don't judge) about whether this was a little close for comfort or not. It appears to me the A320 is over the threshold as the A330 begins it's rotation. This is in Sydney and may be normal ops. MSP is the only airport I can think of where they regularly keep them in tight, but I've never been over the approach lights or threshold as the aircraft in front of me is just lifting off. I also realize this is a video and it may appear closer than it is.

I don't understand the go around argument, in this particular case with one airplane about to lift off (literally seconds away from liftoff) and the other coming short final. Big picture items here, you're on approach Vref about 130-150 knots. The guy in front of you is taking off and will be pulling up around 130-150 kts. You are on very short final, he is about to lift off. Why not just land? By the time you flare he is going airborne with a 99.9% chance. In the extremely rare event he aborts, he won't be stopping anywhere close to where you are. He's going to be at the end of the runway.

Or go around.... now you have two airplanes at similar speeds, both climbing away from the same pavement, with minimal lateral distance.... how did you make things any better? You are now both continuing in the same direction, airborne, and you already outside the usual operation (real life go arounds almost always different than sim world). IMO, your threat matrix here is greater. By going around, you have increased your rate of closure chances. And tower ATC is going to be busy with two aircraft going runway heading and one was not expected to do so. He has to give you instructions pronto.


I had this scenario in a RJ going into RIC. I was PF, the guy in front (IMO) was going to takeoff momentarily. About 100' CA calls go around so I do as asked. Now we are both climbing away, from the same runway environment, close to each other, and tower is trying to give us instructions but is being stepped on. So both continue straight and the distance is the same. Or maybe we're gaining on him because he's trying to hold V2 and we are trying as well but slightly faster than that at the moment. It certainly would have been better to just land.


IMO, the big picture item is closure rate. Going around only makes this worse. I'll file an ASAP and gladly take any phone call saying our main wheels were on the ground while his nose wheel was off, but mains were still on the ground! So... you want me to go around so I can now chase him in the air.... and that would have been better?

 

[saxman]

I've had ATC tell me to go around on occasion when we were much farther apart. In other close situations like this, I'll either go left or right to avoid him in front me. Usually part of my briefing. MSP comes to mind.


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