Glorified Bus Driver

seaav8tor said:
That is correct.

It's all about the Benjamins.

Show me the money.

I love it when someone with a pile of cash or a big fat salary or secure pension turns up their nose at someone of lesser means and accuses them of lacking any sense of altruism then when the tables are turned they go beserk. The airline pilot career, all things considered is a very undercompensated career yet the focus is always on the top 5% wage earners. Many pilots themselves don't even figure this out until in their 40s and look around and realized they have lost so much time they will never make up for it even if they make 6 figures the last few years. In the past the higher salaries and pensions did make the goal worth going after. Not anymore. Long gone. Good bye Sully. Hello Marvin.

It's all about the Benjamins.

Show me the money.
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Ah. . .the fresh sound of smell of reality.

If only more would listen.
 
Socal321 said:
That's because at your age no one would trust you with a bus. In their mind you'd probably kill a bunch of people.
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Eh, probably not. I see kids with fresh CDLs driving tour buses every summer in Alaska. I have lived here for 20 years and not heard of a fatality because of the bus driver.
 
ppragman said:
We really aren't much more than bus drivers, we've just acquired a different set of skills than they have. We load up a load of pax into a giant metal tube, then we blast across country at fairly high speeds. They load up pax into a giant metal rectangular cube, then blast across country at fairly highspeeds. The only real difference? Tube or Cube?
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...and a bunch more math and planning, but it's true from the abstract perspective.

If you think pilots are just glorified bus drivers in a factual, contemptuous way, you're being ignorant. If you think we have nothing in common, you're not being real with yourself. Either way, it really doesn't matter. We still get paid dirt for what we've put into it.

Consider this:
Lawyer: Tuition $100,000 - Start Salary $71,403
Doctor: Tuition $75,000 - Start Salary $100,000
Pilot: Tuition $70,000 - Start Salary $30,000
Bus Driver: Tution (High School) - Start Salary $25,000

(PayScale.com - Pilot tuition based on academy, not 4YR)
​
That puts it in a certain degree of perspective, based solely on amount of money invested versus returned. In terms of job requirements and quality of life, however, many cases can be made, based on different criterion. For example, a lawyer and pilot often both work odd/difficult schedules in their beginning years, and both are stressful to a certain degree, but the pilot mistake could kill, while the lawyer mistake costs someone else money. Then again, it could be taken from the opposite perspective. Teachers and pilots invest a good deal in training/education, but are paid relatively little based on the amount of lives influenced. Take a stats class. It's all about how data is presented. Any way you work it in aviation, though, it's a sad story for the first several years.

Basically, stop worrying what other people think about us and go bust on the people who matter: the people who are somehow still getting paid comfortably running near-bankrupt airlines, fueled by pilots run ragged.
 
Clearblue said:
I agree with killtron; this stuff is getting way to close to circle jerk mode. The OP's situation is unreasonable. Most, if not all, pilots have a drivers license and have been driving for years. To set this up on fair terms the bus drivers would need to at least have a sport pilot licenses. You are also (incorrectly) assuming most bus drivers could not learn to fly an airplane. Just because you have more knowledge in a particular area than someone doesn't mean you're better than them. Hell I even had a CFI and student cut me off the other day.

[YT]M_tFq910y58[/YT]
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Small world, as soon as I looked at the video I noticed that was Hooks. The plane that cut you off is from the school I instruct at part-time(and no, it wasn't me), and I was there the day this happened. The instructor was pretty shaken up and pretty scared when he called the tower. They talked for a while and said after about 20 minutes of discusion that unless the other plane (you) filed a formal report that this would be the end of it.

But I am SO GLAD I found this on the internet. Because I am going to give him hell!!!

Clearblue-Do you fly out of hooks? A few of us met a couple weeks ago here from JC and we are wanting do get together every once and a while, If you are close by you should join us next time.
 
Scandinavian13 said:
...and a bunch more math and planning, but it's true from the abstract perspective.

If you think pilots are just glorified bus drivers in a factual, contemptuous way, you're being ignorant. If you think we have nothing in common, you're not being real with yourself. Either way, it really doesn't matter. We still get paid dirt for what we've put into it.

Consider this:
Lawyer: Tuition $100,000 - Start Salary $71,403
Doctor: Tuition $75,000 - Start Salary $100,000
Pilot: Tuition $70,000 - Start Salary $30,000
Bus Driver: Tution (High School) - Start Salary $25,000

(PayScale.com - Pilot tuition based on academy, not 4YR)
​
That puts it in a certain degree of perspective, based solely on amount of money invested versus returned. In terms of job requirements and quality of life, however, many cases can be made, based on different criterion. For example, a lawyer and pilot often both work odd/difficult schedules in their beginning years, and both are stressful to a certain degree, but the pilot mistake could kill, while the lawyer mistake costs someone else money. Then again, it could be taken from the opposite perspective. Teachers and pilots invest a good deal in training/education, but are paid relatively little based on the amount of lives influenced. Take a stats class. It's all about how data is presented. Any way you work it in aviation, though, it's a sad story for the first several years.

Basically, stop worrying what other people think about us and go bust on the people who matter: the people who are somehow still getting paid comfortably running near-bankrupt airlines, fueled by pilots run ragged.
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Best post of the thread! :)
 
Well, you are a glorified Bus driver if you drive an Airbus! There is way too much ignorance in the world for us to be offended by it. Let those who think it's easy be blissfully unaware. If you get the chance to put one of those clowns on Microsoft FS in clouds...see how long they can keep the dirty side down for laughs.
 
I bet cruise ship captains and train conductors/engineers are sitting around and lamenting bringing respect and pay back to their professions.
 
wjmiller3 said:
The instructor was pretty shaken up and pretty scared when he called the tower. They talked for a while and said after about 20 minutes of discusion that unless the other plane (you) filed a formal report that this would be the end of it.
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Why would there be anything else? Looked to me like the aircraft that the camera was in had the other aircraft in sight the whole time and was able to avoid.

Isn't that how "see and avoid" is supposed to work?
 
scramjet said:
I wouldn't be busting my ass through four years of college if just anyone could fly an airliner. Last time I checked, most major airline pilots and a lot of other airline tradesmen and women have collegiate experience... Aviation is a professional occupation no matter how you slice and dice it involving the mastery and application of operational theory for the utilization of operational procedure unlike, for instance, a bus driver who must only know specific operational procedure without any accompanying theory. It's counterproductive and counter-intuitive to devalue aviation professions and trades if we ever hope to improve them...
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:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:
 
Clearblue said:
I agree with killtron; this stuff is getting way to close to circle jerk mode. The OP's situation is unreasonable. Most, if not all, pilots have a drivers license and have been driving for years. To set this up on fair terms the bus drivers would need to at least have a sport pilot licenses. You are also (incorrectly) assuming most bus drivers could not learn to fly an airplane. Just because you have more knowledge in a particular area than someone doesn't mean you're better than them. Hell I even had a CFI and student cut me off the other day.

[YT]M_tFq910y58[/YT]
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WOW thats all i have to say is wow. How can you not see that there is another aircraft on final for that runway?
 
future pilot said:
WOW thats all i have to say is wow. How can you not see that there is another aircraft on final for that runway?
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In defense of the plane who cutoff our fellow JCer, during that phase of flight it is very difficult to see aircraft that are behind and below you and it's even worse when you're focusing on the runway on final like that. That being said, it is not excuse for something like that to happen especially that close to the ground.
 
c172captain said:
In defense of the plane who cutoff our fellow JCer, during that phase of flight it is very difficult to see aircraft that are behind and below you and it's even worse when you're focusing on the runway on final like that.
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Yea i guess i can see that. Since i dident hear the radio transmissions did the tower know that they were landing on the wrong runway?
 
Scandinavian13 said:
...and a bunch more math and planning, but it's true from the abstract perspective.

If you think pilots are just glorified bus drivers in a factual, contemptuous way, you're being ignorant. If you think we have nothing in common, you're not being real with yourself. Either way, it really doesn't matter. We still get paid dirt for what we've put into it.

Consider this:
Lawyer: Tuition $100,000 - Start Salary $71,403
Doctor: Tuition $75,000 - Start Salary $100,000
Pilot: Tuition $70,000 - Start Salary $30,000
Bus Driver: Tution (High School) - Start Salary $25,000

(PayScale.com - Pilot tuition based on academy, not 4YR)
​
That puts it in a certain degree of perspective, based solely on amount of money invested versus returned. In terms of job requirements and quality of life, however, many cases can be made, based on different criterion. For example, a lawyer and pilot often both work odd/difficult schedules in their beginning years, and both are stressful to a certain degree, but the pilot mistake could kill, while the lawyer mistake costs someone else money. Then again, it could be taken from the opposite perspective. Teachers and pilots invest a good deal in training/education, but are paid relatively little based on the amount of lives influenced. Take a stats class. It's all about how data is presented. Any way you work it in aviation, though, it's a sad story for the first several years.

Basically, stop worrying what other people think about us and go bust on the people who matter: the people who are somehow still getting paid comfortably running near-bankrupt airlines, fueled by pilots run ragged.
Click to expand...

You're right. . .you are placing emphasis on simply the dollars vice another criteria. . . time invested for the knowledge achieved.

My point? A doctor or lawyer with six months of training wouldn't be diagnosing any medical condition on me nor would a lawyer be defending me in any court proceedings.

Yes, I would trust a 250 hour pilot to fly me from point A to point B, and I would pay him. Place that person in the left seat of a larger aircraft? Probably lose that trust factor real fast.

Oh yes. . .I'm a business major. Hated those statistics classes!
 
Scandinavian13 said:
...and a bunch more math and planning, but it's true from the abstract perspective.

If you think pilots are just glorified bus drivers in a factual, contemptuous way, you're being ignorant. If you think we have nothing in common, you're not being real with yourself. Either way, it really doesn't matter. We still get paid dirt for what we've put into it.

Consider this:
Lawyer: Tuition $100,000 - Start Salary $71,403
Doctor: Tuition $75,000 - Start Salary $100,000
Pilot: Tuition $70,000 - Start Salary $30,000
Bus Driver: Tution (High School) - Start Salary $25,000

(PayScale.com - Pilot tuition based on academy, not 4YR)
​
That puts it in a certain degree of perspective, based solely on amount of money invested versus returned. In terms of job requirements and quality of life, however, many cases can be made, based on different criterion. For example, a lawyer and pilot often both work odd/difficult schedules in their beginning years, and both are stressful to a certain degree, but the pilot mistake could kill, while the lawyer mistake costs someone else money. Then again, it could be taken from the opposite perspective. Teachers and pilots invest a good deal in training/education, but are paid relatively little based on the amount of lives influenced. Take a stats class. It's all about how data is presented. Any way you work it in aviation, though, it's a sad story for the first several years.

Basically, stop worrying what other people think about us and go bust on the people who matter: the people who are somehow still getting paid comfortably running near-bankrupt airlines, fueled by pilots run ragged.
Click to expand...
First of all I got my ratings done for about half of what you're saying it costs there and I know I could have done it cheaper if I had been smarter about it.

$75000 for med school? Did you just guess? And starting out doctors have some pretty horrible schedules, you ever wonder why they are called residents? Because they practically live at the hospital for a couple years after they are done being interns.
 
Hacker15e said:
Why would there be anything else? Looked to me like the aircraft that the camera was in had the other aircraft in sight the whole time and was able to avoid.

Isn't that how "see and avoid" is supposed to work?
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Maybe the fact that the first aircraft was cleared to land on 35 RIGHT, but landed on 35 LEFT. Pilot deviation.
 
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