GLO "Pauses" Operations

alaskadrifter said:
I think there is a niche for 30 seat turboprop operators, but not a big one.
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There is a reason that the EM2 had a 1984-2016ish career at "an airline." For certain markets, it was the only choice with acceptable performance and for others it was the only choice with acceptable economics.

Fuel spikes again and we'll see how fast the jet-EAS thing crumbles. Gas guzzlers.
 
alaskadrifter said:
None of our routes in AK are subsidized and most of our routes in the Lower 48 are subsidized.
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Yeah I definitely don't believe that. Maybe you don't get EAS payouts? I dunno if true or not but the stuff that is shipped up in AK is most certainly government subsidized.
 
wheelsup said:
Yeah I definitely don't believe that. Maybe you don't get EAS payouts? I dunno if true or not but the stuff that is shipped up in AK is most certainly government subsidized.
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We have zero EAS routes in AK and just got rid of our freighters so not much mail is getting hauled by us.
 
wheelsup said:
OK fine, your operation isn't subsidized but many, many are up in AK. To say that isn't true isn't facing reality.
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To be fair, the lower 48 ops are subsidized pretty heavily but not as directly, how big would they be without HVCs like @jskibo travelling on government-funded last minute full fare first class tickets allowing them to sell out the rest of the plane at a loss?
 
Roger Roger said:
To be fair, the lower 48 ops are subsidized pretty heavily but not as directly, how big would they be without HVCs like @jskibo travelling on government-funded last minute full fare first class tickets allowing them to sell out the rest of the plane at a loss?
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:)

Close.... Only 21 day advance fares without VP approval. No 1st class allowed, business only to TAS security countries.

I think the last RT J class to CAI via CDG was $3400, one before that was only about a grand more. In 2007 my OKC to RUH tickets were often $12,000. Crazy

Oh and the government funding was that of UAE or Oman.
 
wheelsup said:
OK fine, your operation isn't subsidized but many, many are up in AK. To say that isn't true isn't facing reality.
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That wasn't my point. The point was that a lot of subsidization (is that a word??) is going on in the Lower 48 too. I don't think Alaska is the big budget sucker made out to be.
 
alaskadrifter said:
That wasn't my point. The point was that a lot of subsidization (is that a word??) is going on in the Lower 48 too. I don't think Alaska is the big budget sucker made out to be.
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Well just because aviation isn't subsidized, it doesn't mean that everything else in the state isn't. It's indirect, but still there.
 
Soku39 said:
Well just because aviation isn't subsidized, it doesn't mean that everything else in the state isn't. It's indirect, but still there.
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Well if you're talking indirect subsidies, plenty of that down south too, for example mega-corps that thrive on government tax breaks or contracts buying tickets for their employees. Not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, but gubmint money having a hand in everything is a part of life today.

Plus, if the Feds are going to subsidize any one state, it makes sense for it to be the one where they own 60% of the land. JMO.
 
Roger Roger said:
Well if you're talking indirect subsidies, plenty of that down south too, for example mega-corps that thrive on government tax breaks or contracts buying tickets for their employees. Not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, but gubmint money having a hand in everything is a part of life today.

Plus, if the Feds are going to subsidize any one state, it makes sense for it to be the one where they own 60% of the land. JMO.
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Made my point better than I could. On another note I'm sorry to see another Slaaaaab operator go.
 
Derg said:
An airline getting going into business to offer a low overall cost in an underserved market has been the white whale the inexperienced airline "entrepreneurs" have chased and been felled by forever.
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Well maybe someone out there has the potion to make this happen. I live in Cleveland, which is a majorish city and the amount of connecting I have to do to get anywhere is mind numbing, to the point where I just don't even bother non-revving anymore. I couldn't imagine as a paying pax connecting in Newark or whatever just to go to BNA, because I'm held hostage by United's frequent flyer program after being grandfathered in from Continental (like literally every business traveler in Cleveland market). I would literally just stay home because it's not worth the travel time at that point.
 
Roger Roger said:
.... Related question: why do you think there is nothing new being built in the 1900/Saab 340 class? Anymore there are Caravans/Pilatus at 9 seats, a couple 50-ish seat props (ATR and Q) and then the jets, and even those aren't being built in 50 seat variants anymore.
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Not quite. There are five airframe designs (in the Beech 1900-Saab 340 class) currently available new, all but one built far away, and all the latest tweak (various new technologies, glass cockpits) on a venerable design. None are speed demons. All have STOL capabilities, are high-wing twins and are primarily in use in 3rd world countries, in military variants, and dropping skydivers or for cargo. Most are boxy, lumpy and not very sleek. Several have history as regional airliners in the past, and/or elsewhere in the world. All but one (Viking Twotter) have retractable gear. No 50-seat jets, since plenty are or will be available soon in the used market.

LET L-410. Originally Czech, now built in former USSR. Twin turbo-prop, 19 pax, 1971 original design, more than a thousand built.

Dornier DO-228 NG. Germany, twin turbo, 19 pax, 1981 original design, around 300 built.

Antonov AN-28 / PZL Mielec M-28. Soviet design, now made in Poland. PZL is now owned by Sikorsky / Lockheed Martin. 19 PAX. Around 200 built. USAF uses them for Special Ops work.

CASA C-212. 1971 Spanish design, now built in Indonesia. 500 plus built, 26 pax. US Army & Air Force use it.

Viking Air DHC-6 Twin Otter. Viking builds the newest version of DeHavilland's classic design in Vancouver, Canada. More than 900 built. 19 Pax. Available with floats or skis, too. In use nearly everywhere. new and old.

Coming from Italy: Tecnam P-2012 Traveller. New design and sleekissima. High-wing, fixed gear, 9 PAX , Piston twin. Co-conspirator on the design is Cape Air, to replace their Cessna 402s. First flew a year ago, now in flight testing, expected to enter service in 2019. Cape Air has ordered a hundred.

Sources: Wikipedia, some manufacturers' websites.
 
hook_dupin said:
This. In my view, the support requirements for a B-1900 or a 340 aren't much different than those of a 76-90 seat regional jet.
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True, plus you need to spread those fixed (and semi-fixed) costs over a reasonable number of aircraft. Three isn't enough, and purchasing the staffed service from another firm means two organizations' profit has to come out of the customers' pockets. Taken together, that business plan can't be lean & mean enough.
 
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