Glider hours to cut cost

bc2209

bc2209

Well-Known Member
I thought that I was once told that getting some hours in a glider could save money while obtaining all the ratings, private-CFII. Does anybody know how this would work and if glider hours count toward ratings?
 
It does count towards total time... I'm not sure how much you could potentially save by building a bunch of glider time if you're going the Part 61 route though when you consider all the complex time, night time, and the substantial XC PIC time you will be required to have.
 
mastermags said:
It does count towards total time... I'm not sure how much you could potentially save by building a bunch of glider time if you're going the Part 61 route though when you consider all the complex time, night time, and the substantial XC PIC time you will be required to have.
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Pretty easily, essentially all of the time I had from 150->250 hours was either in gliders, or towing them.

Glider hours absolutely count as total time. That will be most useful for you getting to the 250 hours total time for a C-ASEL.

You can get a Comm Glider cert at 100 flights PIC, after that, give rides for 100 hours, or get a CFI-G and instruct until you have the time for the CFI-A. The CFI Airplane ride is considerably easier to walk into if you have already been instructing in gliders. Getting paid for that time also beats paying someone else for it. In my case, I had about 100 hours of towing/glider instructing/glider flights before getting a C-ASEL. The glider club paid for half of my tailwheel endorsement, and did my CFI-G essentially for free. I probably spent $2,500 on glider flying over 18 months, ended up with two ratings, and doing the math, that worked out to ~$25/hour. Would be a bit more if you didn't already have a PPL, but not much.

You'll still need 40 hours in airplanes to get a PPL-ASEL, but the flying/landing/airmanship will come easily. You'll also need a bunch of X/C PIC for the instrument rating eventually, but that's way off into the future. Conceivably, you can get to CFI/II with only about 100 hours in airplanes (assuming you do the instrument ticket at the end, half of it in a complex ).

Added benefit of a glider club - it is a pretty social place. You wont end up building a lot of time fast, but you will end up meeting a folks with a ton of aviation experience. Many that are CFI's, or own airplanes, or know people, etc.

In my opinion, a great way to get started - very minimal investment, and will only help you.
 
Also, if you don't get any lift, that turns out to be about $50 for .3 TT, might as well rent an airplane. Lift is depressingly rare when I fly gliders in Nebraska.

But still extremely fun.
 
I've run the numbers at our local club and because there's an up front cost, it depends on how often you fly and then of course it depends on how long you can stay up on each tow.

As far as direct cost comparison. I currently rent out my 150 for $80/hour wet. If you did 50 glider flights the distributed cost would be $42 each. So, if you can average .5 per tow then it's the same cost as flying my plane. The next cheapest rental in the area is a Skyhawk at $110/hour. So in that case the glider will almost always be cheaper. Not really apples to apples comparison though.

If you flew a whole bunch and if you were able to stay aloft a long time, the glider would win out pretty quickly as the cheaper option.
 
Douglas said:
Also, if you don't get any lift, that turns out to be about $50 for .3 TT, might as well rent an airplane. Lift is depressingly rare when I fly gliders in Nebraska.

But still extremely fun.
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Eh, no one likes a sled ride. Just wait for a few guinea pigs to go up. If they are right back down, maybe wait for another day.

It is also pretty easy to find someone to split a tow with, so that $50 is often more like $25. Most glider pilots care more about flying than logging hours, and they are pretty much all cheapskates.
 
Split a tow? My little club never did that. I don't think our pawnee would get off the ground in the summer anyway. :eek:
 
drunkenbeagle - what's a typical flight time in an entry-level glider? I mean I understand it varies depending on lift, but what would say the average student or recreational glider pilot logs for time for an average tow?
 
Unless you live in one of those areas where "even bricks soar", you probably not gonna save a lot of cash. But it's a lot of fun, and it will make you a better airplane pilot.

I just recently got my glider rating and I enjoyed it a lot. At the end of the day I spent more cash than was going to, only because flying them is just too addictive. So I would say definitely go for it but don't do it for money.
 
rframe said:
drunkenbeagle - what's a typical flight time in an entry-level glider? I mean I understand it varies depending on lift, but what would say the average student or recreational glider pilot logs for time for an average tow?
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Depends almost entirely on pilot skill, almost nothing to do with the glider. My first flight in a Schwiezer 1-26 (about the lowest performing glider commonly flying) was 2 hours in weak thermals, off at 1500', the tow cost $15. No high performance ships were staying up that day.

Soaring depends on efficiency. Any unnecessary control input will mean less lift. Being at all uncoordinated is the difference between climbing and sinking. That said, the average student I have seen "gets" thermalling pretty quickly. Flights end because we need to teach landings and flying on tow, not generally because of lack of lift. Pretty common for students to have multi-hour flights on their solos. Any day that is good for VFR flying (ceilings 4000+, sunny or (even better) partly cloudy), things are generally fine.

The average flight for a club glider tends to end because someone else is waiting for the glider, about as often as lack of lift is a factor. 1 hour is a pretty good average, if I had to guess.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I see gliders with motors on the interwebs - props that pop out and what not. Why aren't these more popular?
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The prop and engine and fuel add weight, which make it a poor glider. It isn't a very good airplane either, as the engines can't really be trusted to start if needed. And they cost a lot more, and have more things to break.

Turbojet motorgliders are becoming increasingly popular. More reliable, much lighter. As prices come down, I'd expect these to become increasingly common. Not necessarily in Florida, but definitely out west. The turbojet can get the glider into mountain ridge lift inland from the fields they operate from on the coast.
 
Douglas said:
Split a tow? My little club never did that. I don't think our pawnee would get off the ground in the summer anyway. :eek:
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What's the record for gliders towed by the same tug at once? Much bigger number than I expected.

I meant sharing a two-place sailplane, usually there are at least a few older guys at most clubs that no longer fly solo..
 
Everything the beagle said x100.

It can be cheaper per hour if you can stay up (and maybe even go cross country or race!) or split a tow with someone else. I grew up flying gliders with my dad and have been 'working' at a commercial glider operation for the last 7 years or so. I have gone through the ranks from line-guy to towpilot/glider pilot (CFIG this summer I hope) and while the pay isn't great, any employee gets free tows, checkrides and glider rentals (or storage for their own gliders)! Younger people generally come in and work/learn as a line-guy running ropes and helping to retrieve gliders then get to do a few flights in the evening.

I am also not a fan of 'self-launch' or motor-gliders except for some of these new jet powered ones, and the Antares 20E electric self-launch. They are heavier, way more complicated, generally unreliable, noisy, and stats even show them to be more dangerous from people crash while trying to get them restarted instead of landing in a field. The extra drag from the motor being out + the extra distraction and desperation while at a low altitude can increase the risk pretty quickly. Now there are some things out there which are basically airplanes certified as motor-gliders. They don't make very good gliders generally, but it is a great way to fly what is essentially and airplane without a medical (or even without an airplane license).

"If flying were the language of man, soaring would be its poetry"
 
drunkenbeagle said:
What's the record for gliders towed by the same tug at once? Much bigger number than I expected.

I meant sharing a two-place sailplane, usually there are at least a few older guys at most clubs that no longer fly solo..
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Pretty sure that this still stands at 9. Big old heavy L-13s too!
 
tlewis95 said:
They don't make very good gliders generally, but it is a great way to fly what is essentially and airplane without a medical (or even without an airplane license).
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If you like the Katana, a motorglider would have saved you a small fortune :)

As tlewis said, you won't make any money around a glider port. But you will get experience for next to nothing on weekends, without needing to interfere with your day job.
 
I've seen the guy who does the airshow routine in the jet-powered glider for years, but didn't know they were something "normal" people had.

They must suck gas like crazy, but I suppose if you only run them for a couple minutes at a time for a "boost"...
 
rframe said:
I've seen the guy who does the airshow routine in the jet-powered glider for years, but didn't know they were something "normal" people had.

They must suck gas like crazy, but I suppose if you only run them for a couple minutes at a time for a "boost"...
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A good chunk of new gliders for Europe are so equipped these days. New gliders pretty much only come from across the pond, and the US fleet is getting pretty tired.

Fuel burn is not too bad, engine is only likely to run for 15 minutes. Aerotow is likely to be cheaper, but that's only true in the states.
 
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