Giving ATIS code before Taxi

My favorite trick is to use the crappy nature of the mics in our O2 masks to my advantage and just make sure to say some really garbled response when giving the ATIS code if I forgot to write it down (the letter that is) and can't remember which one it is :D
 
planetalkerman said:
Let me expand on this a bit.

It is the responsibility of air traffic control to ensure that you have the current ATIS prior to arrival or departure, that is from FAA Order 7110.65.

Telling clearance delivery that you have the ATIS is okay, but many times you don't taxi out for a while after you talk to clearance. You are setting air traffic controllers up for a new ATIS to come out and a chance not to ensure that you have it. Obviously if you don't get it, it will fall back on the air traffic controller (just like everything else does when a pilot doesn't do their job).

Each tower will have a local facility order that usually expands on regulations that the FAA Order 7110.65 sets forth. Many tower facility orders make it Ground Controls responsibility to ensure the pilot has the proper ATIS. So....a lot of times a pilot will give this information to clearance delivery and clearance will mark the strip appropriate with whatever ATIS you reported. When you call to taxi and do not report the ATIS, ground will look at your strip and see that clearance has ensured you had the ATIS; however, since it is the grounds responsiblity to ensure that you have the ATIS per their local order, he will ask you again (that's if he is doing his job right).

We are all aviation professionals and should be helping eachother out whenever we can. If you as a pilot can help air traffic control out by letting them know the proper ATIS when you are closest to departure that would help us.

Now some airports are do things different per their local order, but all things remain the same, they will ensure that you have the most current ATIS prior to departure.
Click to expand...

Though I appreciate you commenting with great information from the ATC perspective, the portion of your post that I bolded is both uncalled for and uninformed. The truth is if a pilot makes a mistake they can not only lose their job, but also be held liable personally up to losing everything they own. Whereas if an air traffic controller makes a mistake they may lose their job, but as a government employee cannot be held personally liable.
 
hemaybedid said:
Though I appreciate you commenting with great information from the ATC perspective, the portion of your post that I bolded is both uncalled for and uninformed. The truth is if a pilot makes a mistake they can not only lose their job, but also be held liable personally up to losing everything they own. Whereas if an air traffic controller makes a mistake they may lose their job, but as a government employee cannot be held personally liable.
Click to expand...

What he was saying is that sometimes when pilots screw up, ATC will get in trouble too. Whereas when ATC screws up, pilots don't normally get in trouble.
 
hemaybedid said:
Though I appreciate you commenting with great information from the ATC perspective, the portion of your post that I bolded is both uncalled for and uninformed. The truth is if a pilot makes a mistake they can not only lose their job, but also be held liable personally up to losing everything they own. Whereas if an air traffic controller makes a mistake they may lose their job, but as a government employee cannot be held personally liable.
Click to expand...

We can be held personally liable for things we do as an air traffic controller. If we purposely disregard rules then we can be held personally accountable.

As air traffic controllers, attorney's for a dead pilot's estate or family rip through everything to pin some blame on ATC or the system...happens all the time...just the slighest slip by us and maybe we won't be personally held liable, but a pilot that did about 15 stupid things and crashed now will get paid out by the government in a settlement because we forgot to give them the current altimeter down to the nearest .01 or we didn't get a proper read back on an ATIS....or we didn't say "contact departure when clear of the pattern" and the pilot contacts departure when he is on the runway and then has another aircraft land on him.

I've got over 2300 hours in countless aircraft. I'm not just an air traffic controller...you'd be suprised at how many controllers at least have their private pilots license.

Feel free to move this somewhere other than this thread.
 
First off, I have bothkicked the tires and lit the fires, and I have pushed tin, so I know both sides of this as the previous poster said. Now, having said that, as a pilot, it is not your job to know which controller is reponsible for making sure you have the ATIS, whether it is ground or CD. All we know as pilot is that the last thing in every ATIS is "advise on INITIAL CONTACT you have information xxx". It doesn't say "advise to the controller you think it will do the most good you have information xxx" or "advise when you are ready to taxi that you have information xxx". I don't know how people can interpret initial contact differently, but somehow some people do. At a facility wiht combined CD/ground, this is a moot point, but at a facility with split CD and ground, as pilots, we have no reason not to tell CD we have the ATIS. Even if you won't taxi for a half hour and the ATIS may change, this isn't up to us as pilots to figure out. Our initial contact is with CD, so we give them the ATIS. Now, when ready to taxi, and contacting ground. different facilities have different SOP's for who does what, and as pilots, we don't know. I'm not saying do not give the ATIS to ground as well, but I'm saying that in this situation, I don't see how anyone can think giving it to CD is optional. If they don't care, as it isn't in their job according to the SOP, as pilots, we will never know that, but we don't need to know who does what. What I would recommend to pilots in most cases is to give the ATIS to CD, and if immediately contacting ground, I don't feel it is necessary. If you have to delay your contaact to ground at all (even just a few minutes), listen to the ATIS again, if it is the same, no need to give it to ground again, but if it changed, give it to ground. At the same time, it is never a bad idea to give it to ground no matter what, just unnecessary in some cases.

To everyone incredibly concerned with "well what if it changes between when you get clearance, and contact ground", while this is warranted, as a pilot, do you think it is any different than if you get an ATIS, then taxi, then as you're taxiing you hear "xxx tower information xxx is current, altimeter xxxx". No one needs to make sure you have that ATIS, but as a pilot, I still want to make sure I get that ATIS.

Maybe in the previous example, the controller would care, depending on if the ATIS changes between CD and ground, or if it changes while the aircraft is taxiing, but as pilots, it is not up to us to figure out who is doing what, when, we have a job to do as a pilot, and we don't need to try to figure out when it is most convenient to give the ATIS to ATC, because the ATIS already tells us when to do it.

I will end with this. CAK went to some local airports and gave a seminar for pilots, along with a guide to their airport and airspace. Under their instruction for what to do on the ground at CAK, it says to first contact CD with intention, and the ATIS. Then it says to contact ground, but makes no mention of giving ground the ATIS
 
who you give the ATIS code is really inconsequential. if LIMA is current and there's not a big L on your flight progress strip, im asking you if you have LIMA before i clear you for takeoff (even if you told CD and GC BOTH that you had LIMA, and they neglected to make note of it). ground should be the first one to catch and ensure it, but that doesnt happen all of the time.

a lot of times CD won't get a code because the pilot just assumes there will be a new ATIS by the time he taxis (ie, air carrier calls at XX:48 and won't be taxiing for 20 minutes). in this case, it's then ground's responsibility to ensure you have the proper code, which still doesn't happen every time.

whether or not that is regulatory or not is neither here nor there. that's just the way it works at most medium-level facilities.
 
I have not been around here for several months so I thought it would be time to give my fingers some exercise.

The ATIS is required for all "departing" and "arriving" aircraft.

Good rule of thumb is to check the actual ATIS broadcast to determine whether you will contact CD first or just go to ground (VFR a/c). At my tower we have all VFR a/c contact CD prior to taxi and therefore pilots should advise CD "on initial contact" (since that's the initial controller they will be talking to) that they have the ATIS code x.
 
Not sure who to quote, read both submissions...wine is a killer for me! =)


Busy airports will give an ATIS code! (so they know everyone is on the same page, weather wise)

If any ATIS code is given, repeat it! What are they going to do? Make fun of you for paying attention? Come on....

If your talking to the American Clearance Delivery, make double sure they know, your IFR!!!
 
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