mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Ah-ha! Now, that makes sense . . . thanks!
Giving ATIS code before Taxi
- Thread starter zachoe
- Start date
Ah-ha! Now, that makes sense . . . thanks!
This is what controllers are responsible for:
From the Good Book 7110.65 Chapter 3, Section 9
Section 9. Departure Procedures and Separation
a. Departure information contained in the ATIS broadcast may be omitted if the pilot states the appropriate ATIS code.
b. Issue departure information by including the following:
1. Runway in use. (May be omitted if pilot states “have the numbers.”)
2. Surface wind from direct readout dial, wind shear detection system, or automated weather observing system information display. (May be omitted if pilot states “have the numbers.”)
3. Altimeter setting. (May be omitted if pilot states “have the numbers.”)
Don't worry Tower Flowers, the Center guy has you covered on a chapter we don't even use in the Z's.
From the Good Book 7110.65 Chapter 3, Section 9
Section 9. Departure Procedures and Separation
3-9-1. DEPARTURE INFORMATION
Provide current departure information, as appropriate, to departing aircraft.a. Departure information contained in the ATIS broadcast may be omitted if the pilot states the appropriate ATIS code.
b. Issue departure information by including the following:
1. Runway in use. (May be omitted if pilot states “have the numbers.”)
2. Surface wind from direct readout dial, wind shear detection system, or automated weather observing system information display. (May be omitted if pilot states “have the numbers.”)
3. Altimeter setting. (May be omitted if pilot states “have the numbers.”)
Don't worry Tower Flowers, the Center guy has you covered on a chapter we don't even use in the Z's.
pilot4higher
Well-Known Member
I always say I have the current info on ground also. Heres a question for the group. The other day I pull up to the non-movement line and call ground for taxi with the current info. It was near the top of the hour so it had just changed. I was "cleared to taxi and advise when you have XXXX." Me and my student taxi to the runup area, and I just switched to ATIS freq before the runup to get the current. Being a class D airport I guess I was in the wrong to not request a frequency change in the runup area. Anyway we taxied to the hold short gave tower the info and so on. Out of the runup area we don't have to say anything else to ground so I just told tower when we were number 1 & we had XXXX. I told my student that it was a oops on my part, and they should always request a freq change to be safe and by the book. Two way communictation and all.....or am I just being to anal? :dunno:
Shouldn't need to talk to ground anymore in the runup area. From what you describe, it was a normal changeover to local point anyway.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Depends how far the runup area is from the runway. Just tell ground "continuing taxi" when you start to move again.
clestudentpilot
Well-Known Member
If you are meaning to change frequency to the ATIS and you have no way of monitoring ground, then yes, you should have requested it. If you just mean from your transition from ground to tower for takeoff, then no, you don't need to, because you have already been told to taxi to that runway, so you don't need to request anything, it is kind of implied.
clestudentpilot
Well-Known Member
Has old age gotten to you being a center puke, this didn't even answer the OPs question. I'm just giving you a hard time though haha, I just didn't feel like looking anything up
:crazy:
planetalkerman
Well-Known Member
I don't if I've already given it to Clearance Delivery.
(basic 5 w's...you're cracking me up dood. Wait. I'm too old to say "dood".)
Get in the habit of telling the ground controller of the ATIS code because it is their responsibility to ensure that you have the proper ATIS, not clearance delivery. Sometimes you taxi out a bit after you have received your clearance and the ATIS has changed at that point as well.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
planetalkerman
Well-Known Member
Let me expand on this a bit.
It is the responsibility of air traffic control to ensure that you have the current ATIS prior to arrival or departure, that is from FAA Order 7110.65.
Telling clearance delivery that you have the ATIS is okay, but many times you don't taxi out for a while after you talk to clearance. You are setting air traffic controllers up for a new ATIS to come out and a chance not to ensure that you have it. Obviously if you don't get it, it will fall back on the air traffic controller (just like everything else does when a pilot doesn't do their job).
Each tower will have a local facility order that usually expands on regulations that the FAA Order 7110.65 sets forth. Many tower facility orders make it Ground Controls responsibility to ensure the pilot has the proper ATIS. So....a lot of times a pilot will give this information to clearance delivery and clearance will mark the strip appropriate with whatever ATIS you reported. When you call to taxi and do not report the ATIS, ground will look at your strip and see that clearance has ensured you had the ATIS; however, since it is the grounds responsiblity to ensure that you have the ATIS per their local order, he will ask you again (that's if he is doing his job right).
We are all aviation professionals and should be helping eachother out whenever we can. If you as a pilot can help air traffic control out by letting them know the proper ATIS when you are closest to departure that would help us.
Now some airports are do things different per their local order, but all things remain the same, they will ensure that you have the most current ATIS prior to departure.
It is the responsibility of air traffic control to ensure that you have the current ATIS prior to arrival or departure, that is from FAA Order 7110.65.
Telling clearance delivery that you have the ATIS is okay, but many times you don't taxi out for a while after you talk to clearance. You are setting air traffic controllers up for a new ATIS to come out and a chance not to ensure that you have it. Obviously if you don't get it, it will fall back on the air traffic controller (just like everything else does when a pilot doesn't do their job).
Each tower will have a local facility order that usually expands on regulations that the FAA Order 7110.65 sets forth. Many tower facility orders make it Ground Controls responsibility to ensure the pilot has the proper ATIS. So....a lot of times a pilot will give this information to clearance delivery and clearance will mark the strip appropriate with whatever ATIS you reported. When you call to taxi and do not report the ATIS, ground will look at your strip and see that clearance has ensured you had the ATIS; however, since it is the grounds responsiblity to ensure that you have the ATIS per their local order, he will ask you again (that's if he is doing his job right).
We are all aviation professionals and should be helping eachother out whenever we can. If you as a pilot can help air traffic control out by letting them know the proper ATIS when you are closest to departure that would help us.
Now some airports are do things different per their local order, but all things remain the same, they will ensure that you have the most current ATIS prior to departure.
My experience has been that when at an airport with CD, ground will only ask about the current ATIS if a new one has been issued since I picked up my clearance. Otherwise (apparently) the note from CD on the strip is adequate. That's what I've noticed anyway. < shrug >
If we were supposed to tell ground EVERY time what ATIS information we have received, there would be no reason to tell CD, would there? Want to guess what CD's first question is if I don't tell them the ATIS code when calling for my clearance? My understanding is that we tell CD the ATIS code specifically so we don't have to clutter up ground with that information. That said, if I'm sharp and notice that I picked up my clearance at 0:45 past the hour, but don't taxi out until :10 past the next hour I should grab the new ATIS and give that to ground on the initial call. Other then that, I'm not tying up the freq.
If we were supposed to tell ground EVERY time what ATIS information we have received, there would be no reason to tell CD, would there? Want to guess what CD's first question is if I don't tell them the ATIS code when calling for my clearance? My understanding is that we tell CD the ATIS code specifically so we don't have to clutter up ground with that information. That said, if I'm sharp and notice that I picked up my clearance at 0:45 past the hour, but don't taxi out until :10 past the next hour I should grab the new ATIS and give that to ground on the initial call. Other then that, I'm not tying up the freq.
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
:yeahthat: At DPA, if you don't tell CD you have information XX they will query you.
planetalkerman
Well-Known Member
I for one know that at DPA in their local order, ground control is responsible to ensure you have the proper ATIS...clearance does request it and they mark it on the strip....when ground taxi's you out he/she she's the ATIS code marked on the strip and assumes you have the proper one, however, it is ground's responsibility to ensure you have it. Most ground controller's will take clearance deliveries word on it that they have the right code, but if someone were to go down, the ground controller would get dinged for not ensuring you had the proper ATIS.
When I used to work in a tower environment, I could care less if the pilot told me on clearance whether or not he had the ATIS....if he did tell me or any of the other clearance guys, we wouldn't write it on the strip. That way, since it was grounds job anyways to ensure the proper ATIS, it would prompt them to do so.
Somebody mentioned not wanting to crowd up a frequency saying they have the ATIS....really how much talk does that consist of?
N123 at Enterprise ready to taxi.
N123 at Enterprise ready to taxi with Bravo.
not much difference.
pilotx86
Well-Known Member
good morning folks....Strange, I had this debate in recurrent training. I used to not do it once I told Clearance Delivery, but I'm based in New York La Guardia Airport, and to tell you the truth, they are ATIS NAZI's...it's unbelievable. I'll never forget the time we were taxiing into position on runway 13 and they asked if we had ATIS ****. The ground controllers will even take 1 to 2 minutes to ask 20+ aircraft what ATIS they have.
I think it's just best to tell CD and ground. It covers everyone's behind, and usually saves you the headache of having to get it later on, unless there are significant changes.
I think it's just best to tell CD and ground. It covers everyone's behind, and usually saves you the headache of having to get it later on, unless there are significant changes.
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
I get what people are saying about excess verbiage cluttering the frequency, but consider how pilots normally let controllers know the ATIS they have:
...information Bravo
...with ATIS Bravo
...ATIS Bravo
...with Bravo
That only takes an extra second or so. Does that really clog the frequency? Certainly much less than:
N123, verify you have information Bravo?
Affirmative, we have Bravo, N123
...information Bravo
...with ATIS Bravo
...ATIS Bravo
...with Bravo
That only takes an extra second or so. Does that really clog the frequency? Certainly much less than:
N123, verify you have information Bravo?
Affirmative, we have Bravo, N123
