GFK, RDR...close enough

LOGS said:
Which is why I always put the ILS freq in even when I do a visual. That's just being damn lazy and takes what 2 seconds to have the FO look up the freq just to make sure. Not like they have anything else to do while the AP flys. Maybe that show on their iphone is just too interesting.

=Jason-
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Actually as contray to your rambling as you might think that the AP is on and they are jerking around in the cockpit they are busy doing work. DVL to GFK is about 10 minutes. Lot of stuff going on and stuff that you cant just simply forget. I actually have in my hand what happened on that flight. Both Guys were from Memphis and were not I repeat not UND alum. SO they made a honest mistake and they did have the Back Course freq and the DME off GFK VOR in ,and that is because, that is SOP. The problem they had was the Airbase looked similar to GFK intl. Runways align in the same dimension. Go a few years back a NWA A320 landed at Ellsworth AFB instead of KRAP. Same situation. Give the guys a break and just get some humor out of it and let it drop. Its not like anybody here or anywhere is perfect and if you say you are then you are even worse then these guys. For you who are still training, learn from it, even at a airline, pilots can make simple mistakes. Plus there was some other things going on in the flight deck that I will not divulge but lets just say they were not chillin in the seat.
-Farv
 
I'm just glad all this happened in north dakota... You know, where they don't have mountains and stuff. I dont understand how if they had the BC set in, and they had nav flags and whatnot, how do you not notice that something's wrong? Just have to wonder. I wasn't in the cockpit, so I don't know what happened, but it's very strange.
 
Farva said:
Actually as contray to your rambling as you might think that the AP is on and they are jerking around in the cockpit they are busy doing work. DVL to GFK is about 10 minutes. Lot of stuff going on and stuff that you cant just simply forget. I actually have in my hand what happened on that flight. Both Guys were from Memphis and were not I repeat not UND alum. SO they made a honest mistake and they did have the Back Course freq and the DME off GFK VOR in ,and that is because, that is SOP. The problem they had was the Airbase looked similar to GFK intl. Runways align in the same dimension. Go a few years back a NWA A320 landed at Ellsworth AFB instead of KRAP. Same situation. Give the guys a break and just get some humor out of it and let it drop. Its not like anybody here or anywhere is perfect and if you say you are then you are even worse then these guys. For you who are still training, learn from it, even at a airline, pilots can make simple mistakes. Plus there was some other things going on in the flight deck that I will not divulge but lets just say they were not chillin in the seat.
-Farv
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Why give sympathy to people who messed up? They messed up and shouldn't get any leeway. Yes ok it's a 10 minute flight but other than the check lists what was there to do? I'm sure they had a least a couple minutes lined up with final, did noone notice that hey, the BC isn't lined up??? Sorry there's no excuse for incompentance, especially when your responsible for other's lives.

=Jason-
 
LOGS said:
Why give sympathy to people who messed up? They messed up and shouldn't get any leeway. Yes ok it's a 10 minute flight but other than the check lists what was there to do? I'm sure they had a least a couple minutes lined up with final, did noone notice that hey, the BC isn't lined up??? Sorry there's no excuse for incompentance, especially when your responsible for other's lives.

=Jason-
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So if they were coming from DVL that means they were probably coming in on a right base. They probably saw the airport, called it in sight and were cleard for the visual. They were probably hand flying as they were turning from base to final. As they made the turn, one set of eyes was outside and the other set was doing a flow/checklist/tuning radios. I would imagine that there was then some conversation as to why the B/C was not centered and the DME was off. By the time this happened ATC had queried them as to where they were going. With only a couple miles between GFK and RDR they were probably not expecting it to be there either. The bottom line is that YOU have no clue what was going on or the timeline/conversation on the flight deck.

I am finding it very difficult to believe that you have never made a mistake before in your entire career. But you may not have ever made a mistake before and in that case you are a "Super Pilot".
 
This is would probably be unsatisfactory on a stage check.


On a more serious note, like LOGS said, when you are responsible for other people lives, mistakes like this are unacceptable. Look what happened to several other commercial aircraft that have screwed up an approach and ended up impacting terrain.
 
Wow, a couple of friends of mine at Mesaba are glad to know that there are so many perfect pilots coming from UND, they can't wait to hear from you guys when hiring turns back around, Compass too.
 
400A said:
Wow, a couple of friends of mine at Mesaba are glad to know that there are so many perfect pilots coming from UND, they can't wait to hear from you guys when hiring turns back around, Compass too.
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What is this, a threat?? Come on, they messed up and you are like oh its ok cause of yada yada yada. Sure I make mistakes but when I do at least I'll admit them. The crew is lucky its flat ND. Maybe next time they'll take the time to properlly setup for the approach, even a visual.:banghead:

=Jason-
 
Just sayin, you are so perfect so early in your career that Mesaba and Compass would be remiss to not snap you up right now so you could straighten out their training department(s) and solve all CRM and procedural errors yesterday.
 
LOGS said:
What is this, a threat?? Come on, they messed up and you are like oh its ok cause of yada yada yada. Sure I make mistakes but when I do at least I'll admit them. The crew is lucky its flat ND. Maybe next time they'll take the time to properlly setup for the approach, even a visual.:banghead:

=Jason-
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How do you know they weren't properly set up for the approach? I am pretty sure they would have filled out an ASAP/NASA report on the event which is the same as admitting a mistake.
 
If they were set up properly then the mistake wouldn't have happened. So early in my career?? Ha that's a laugh :laff:

=J-
 
This forum is such a pissing match that everyone should set a restroom of choosing, date/time and set a designated person to bring the ruler.
 
LOGS said:
If they were set up properly then the mistake wouldn't have happened. So early in my career?? Ha that's a laugh :laff:

=J-
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This kind of "burn them at the stake" attitude is not taken too kindly in this industry. I would watch myself.

We are all human and we all make mistakes.
 
I understand people make mistakes but come on and stop making excuses and man up to what you did. They got lucky this time, hopefully there won't be a next time. I am also tired of this pissing contest that has seem to grow into more and more of a usual thing on this board. I get threatened because of my opinion???? WTF, and it's the healthy attitude that something like this shouldn't happen.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

=Jason-
 
I understand people make mistakes but come on and stop making excuses and man up to what you did.
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Point No. 1: Mistakes happen, lesson learned by the crew. No need to stab the wound. The crew shared the mistake through the safety reporting system.

This kind of "burn them at the stake" attitude is not taken too kindly in this industry. I would watch myself.
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Point No. 2: Let's cut down on the preaching tone. If anything, it is not exclusive to aviation so no need to say, "in this industry."
 
400A said:
Wow, a couple of friends of mine at Mesaba are glad to know that there are so many perfect pilots coming from UND, they can't wait to hear from you guys when hiring turns back around, Compass too.
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Well as UND alum at a particular airline that may be hiring when things turn around I might just tell the people who run the interviews or even better I actually do the interviews and make sure to give the UND applicants a real ringer for there interview so that way they can prove not only to mesaba but a line pilot that they are gods of aviation. Seriously to those who say we should ride there butts down into the ground and make them pay for it, You just dont get it, though XJ is a good airline, it is not some pool party in which you get all the rest you have and do what you want. To someone who said glad they werent in the mountains, They were in visual conditions and cleared for the visual. there for they would have seen a mountain. If it was IMC they would have been vectored to the BC and intercept it. Even if that logic fails the saab has one tool that a Cessna 172 doesnt, EGPWS. So there is my ramblings, and if people continue to bash XJ over this really mundane and just a simple loss of situationa awareness with a unfamiliar location, They may find themselves not getting a job once the hiring picks up because even if the individuals are " anonomous" on this forum, there attitudes arent.
-Farva

400A the next time you roll through MSP give me a call and will buy ya a beer for this one.
 
Farva said:
Well as UND alum at a particular airline that may be hiring when things turn around I might just tell the people who run the interviews or even better I actually do the interviews and make sure to give the UND applicants a real ringer for there interview so that way they can prove not only to mesaba but a line pilot that they are gods of aviation. Seriously to those who say we should ride there butts down into the ground and make them pay for it, You just dont get it, though XJ is a good airline, it is not some pool party in which you get all the rest you have and do what you want. To someone who said glad they werent in the mountains, They were in visual conditions and cleared for the visual. there for they would have seen a mountain. If it was IMC they would have been vectored to the BC and intercept it. Even if that logic fails the saab has one tool that a Cessna 172 doesnt, EGPWS. So there is my ramblings, and if people continue to bash XJ over this really mundane and just a simple loss of situationa awareness with a unfamiliar location, They may find themselves not getting a job once the hiring picks up because even if the individuals are " anonomous" on this forum, there attitudes arent.
-Farva

400A the next time you roll through MSP give me a call and will buy ya a beer for this one.
Click to expand...

Wow.
 
juxtapilot said:
Wow.
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Whats the problem? If you are gonna throw out words of insult you will get them back. Its not just you its other people on this forum. Everybody makes a mistake and its not just a aviation related issue. You guys are so harsh on people yet you have no idea what flying even at a regional level is like. You think its like flying a 172 or a PA28. Its not, and how do you think the guys figured out where they were? If you wanna throw flame bait out go ahead but I will throw some back and I dont make empty threats, I just make a simple observation. Interviewers have done it in the past and will continue to do so all because the preception is there. You wanna bash UND, Mesaba, and place XYZ, go ahead, all you really do is show your ignorance and immaturity. You also show that you really cant take the real world. Because in the real world you cant live with mommy and daddy and get what you want. In the "real world", YOU have to go to work to earn a living and make sure YOU can pay your bills and preform at your job in the best way possible. For some people its that and having to support there kids and spouses because you are relied upon. So forgive me if I come off insensitive and possibly a D***Hole, but I am flying so that I can put food on the table and I understand why my fellow aviators could become disorientated. Anything from a new area to things at home can cause issues with flying. When your butt is always working and not sleeping, it can happen, anywhere at anytime.

-Farva
 
Farva said:
You think its like flying a 172 or a PA28. Its not, and how do you think the guys figured out where they were?
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Well.....flying is flying, man....and to be honest, it has nothing to do with what plane you fly so I don't know why you even bring up this whole "I fly a Saab/RJ and it's nothing like your C172 that you fly" point. Regardless of whether one is an airline pilot or not, you can always get disoriented and I think that's the end point. We all remember when we tried finding Stephen airport up in practice area X through just pilotage.....

I'm not taking sides, but I'm taking a look at this thread from a bird's eye view and I'm seeing responses going from:
Threats/preaches from guys in an airline. (ridiculous)
Comments prejudging the crew of the incident. (ridiculous)

...and it all looks foolish to me. Let's just learn from what happened to the crew whether it was a genuine mistake or whatever other factors were involved and let's accept that we can all be susceptible to mistakes and let's not let it happen to us.
 
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