Getting IFR current, in VFR, with a hood on, flying solo, in class B?

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Caelum Deus said:
Ok let's start this post over.
Let me ask the same question differently. What is atc's ultimate responsibility when it comes to separating vfr traffic in class B?
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Ultimately their job is to affect lateral, vertical, and longitudinal separation of traffic by keeping the little white dots separate from each other. Should that system fail, if a person at the controls of one of the white dots happens to visually see the other white dot, that person is also responsible for ensuring that their little white dot doesn't run into the other persons little white dot.
 
Most of the "proof" comes from reading the applicable regs and seeing what they do say rather than what we think they might say. Just 2 examples from this thread:

91.109(c) does not say:
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Except when in Class B airspace, No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless -
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety pilot; and
(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that aircraft is equipped with fully functioning dual controls. However, simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a single engine-airplane, equipped with a single, functioning, throwover control wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons, when -
(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.
==============================

and 91. 113(b) does not say:
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General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, and except when in Class B airspace, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear.
==============================
 
gotWXdagain said:
Ultimately their job is to affect lateral, vertical, and longitudinal separation of traffic by keeping the little white dots separate from each other. Should that system fail, if a person at the controls of one of the white dots happens to visually see the other white dot, that person is also responsible for ensuring that their little white dot doesn't run into the other persons little white dot.
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Which is disagreeing with everything that everyone has been saying. If thats their job then the pilot should be able to fully trust the controller with that duty.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Most of the "proof" comes from reading the applicable regs and seeing what they do say rather than what we think they might say. Just 2 examples from this thread:

91.109(c) does not say:
==============================
Except when in Class B airspace, No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless -
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety pilot; and
(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that aircraft is equipped with fully functioning dual controls. However, simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a single engine-airplane, equipped with a single, functioning, throwover control wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons, when -
(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.
==============================

and 91. 113(b) does not say:
==============================
General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, and except when in Class B airspace, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear.
==============================
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Ok everyone who has been talking about the "proof" thing, you guys...maybe children, have taken it completely out of context. Its when people post a response like "Surely you can't be serious.""In short: no.""I don't need to prove to you anything. IF you are a PIC, start acting like it.", and on and on, the comments dont do anything besides except force me to pull out the troll battle ax and attempt to get back on track with the intention of the post.
You guys are ruining this forum. I spend more time arguing rather than learning. Its pathetic, grow up
 
mikecweb said:
It's actually EXACTLY what everyone else is saying.
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Ok a reread it again. I first read it as if their system fails, like their ATC radar system. I apologize.
It seems like this post is dead. In class B if you're involved with a mid air its both the controllers and your fault. Or if the FAA found out you were under the hood solo, then it would be your fault. Or if ATC made a mistake like putting two aircraft on a head on course and both pilots deviated towards each other, then it would be ATCs fault. Which ultimately applies to all types of airspace so nothing changes in class b.
 
Caelum Deus said:
Ok a reread it again. I first read it as if their system fails, like their ATC radar system. I apologize.
It seems like this post is dead. In class B if you're involved with a mid air its both the controllers and your fault. Or if the FAA found out you were under the hood solo, then it would be your fault. Or if ATC made a mistake like putting two aircraft on a head on course and both pilots deviated towards each other, then it would be ATCs fault. Which ultimately applies to all types of airspace so nothing changes in class b.
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No, not quite. If ATC made a mistake of putting two aircraft on a collision course it would STILL be the pilots' fault in VFR weather. Pilots ALWAYS have the responsibility to see and avoid, in any airspace, even on an IFR flight plan. The ONLY time traffic separation is solely ATC's responsibility is if the aircraft are in IMC and can't possibly see each other.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I think a thread is dead after the same question is asked multiple times and the questioner doesn't want to accept the answer.
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That is strange, huh? I think it's because the original question --->
Caelum Deus said:
Ok so in class B ATC provides separation services, so would it be possible to do practice approaches in VFR under the hood by yourself?
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<--- was shot down like a sack of hammers when people saw that he was an "assistant chief flight instructor with over 5,000 hours." (Even the newest instructor should know these regs) Then to add fuel to the fire he had an attitude about it. And once you have an attitude- all bets are off.

So, now he's playing the "No-you-don't-understand-what-I-meant-to-say" game. It's a classic. I've seen it before with a guy who had the screen name "jetdrvr" on another forum. He claimed to be a 777 captain for years but he was finally exposed to be a regional FO. Somebody found pictures, his real name, all kinds of stuff. He posted it all. It was epic. He was a total phony.

Anyway, like a gentleman, that guy just dissapeared and probably made a new screen name. This guy has since blocked his profile, but like jetdrvr should probably take it a little further and... 'be a gentleman' too.
 
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You guys are all idiots. You can't stick to the simple fact that I was asking a reasonable question which shouldn't have been in the form of an example. The example wasn't a good one. The question was who has the final responsibility when you're in class b when it comes to traffic separation. That's all. And because a lot of you needed this spelled out this post has gone ass sideways. And continues to go nowhere. I keep questioning why I keep reply, thinking I must have better things to do, but I'm defending my position, and then I think why does everyone else keep responding? You guys must be bored out of your mind
 
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