Getting IFR Clearance In the Air (ATC not happy)

turbojet28 said:
Thanks for the replies. As for 121.611, I am not sure how to interpret that because it is about dispatching and releasing for a VFR flight under part 121. We were dispatched/released IFR and then in our company's FOM there is a provision for departing VFR.The provision states it is allowed if you maintain VFR cloud clearances, at least 1000' AGL, and don't proceed further than 50 NM from the departure airport before getting your IFR clearance.

Anyway, I haven't heard anything else yet, and honestly I don't even know if I will. When the ACP called and after we told him our side of the story he didn't seem to think we had done anything incorrectly.
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My response was not to you but to those who think 91 only applies. Really without reading your OPSPECs I would be guessing.
 
turbojet28 said:
I fly 121 and this morning we departed a non-towered airport on a short flight into the hub. No direct comm was available to the center, and we couldn't raise anyone on the GCO at the airport. It was very nice WX so we decided to depart VFR. We also had a NOTAM that stated VFR departures were allowed as long as we follow the procedures listed in our FOM (which we also did). We got our IFR passing about 6000, probably no more than 10 miles from the departure field. We were in class E airspace squawking 1200, then we were cleared as filed and told to maintain __ thousand and on our way - controller never said anything. Later this afternoon we get a phone call from our company saying they had a complaint from ATC about us departing VFR a getting a clearance in the air. After thinking about it and doing some reading in our FOM, I still believe we performed a perfectly acceptable departure. It has been a while since I have done it this way, but I have never received a complaint. Do I have something to worry about? I realize that in consideration to ATC, we should have just gotten the clearance on the ground from FSS over the phone, regardless of what the company allows us to do. I am trying to learn from the experience, but now I'm a bit worried because we got a complaint. I do apologize to any ATCers here because I guess I didn't realize it was a big headache (for those of us who don't operate out of non-towered fields as often).
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We have a ops spec allowing this at our company departing the islands. We can't get ahold of Miami Center until at least 3-4,000. If your FOM says you can do it, you're fine.
 
Does your company fly into the airport on a regular basis?
Did they give a reason why it was a problem to pick up your IFR in the air?
It could be the proximity of the airport and the airspace boundaries.
We have an airport we work that before we release an IFR or allow one to go in, we have to coordinate with two different facilities and three different sectors. It is a pain for us.
I would talk to the facility that called to see what their reasoning is.

It is easy to say the controller was being a complainer, but I would guarantee there are other reasons behind this.
 
Thanks again for the comments. I called the CP the other day to discuss it further after not hearing anything back. He told me it was never anything "official", just a request from center that we not do that unless absolutely necessary (ie- no cell phone service). Glad it turned out to be nothing, but at least I was able to learn from it.
 
You didn't do anything wrong at all. If he didn't like it, he could've told you to maintain VFR and he would get to you when he had the time. I don't mind guys calling on the go for clearances, I just appreciate it when they call above the MVA so I don't have to get into the whole,"...can you maintain your own terrain and obstruction..."

If I don't have a proposed departure strip yet, I am just going to write down the call sign and yell at RD to get me a strip. It really isn't a big deal at all to give a clearance on the go to an aircraft.
 
Probably the best thing to do is to just ask the company, how would you like me to handle this situation in the future.
 
aviator357 said:
I know we want you to call on the ground for your clearance.
During the day we are to busy to read a full route clearance.
If it is early in the morning or late at night it is fine, but not during busy times.
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Don't take this the wrong way.

What you want and what you need are two different things.

Sometimes, I want direct to the destination, yet it's not required.
 
aviator357 said:
Yep, that is why I stated it as "want" and not "required".
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Yes, but you qualified with with "in the mornings it's ok, not during busy times." Which made it sound like it's not ok to call up during the middle of a busy time and pick up a clearance in the air, which is false.
 
It still isn't okay, but it is legal. Pilots should be able tell by the frequency congestion if we are going to have the time.
 
I did en route ATC work for most of 29 years. Their are good controllers, lazy controllers, etc, etc. I've never seen where a supervisor would do anything, unless a controller complained about it. We have a good safe system, but it is comprised of individuals just like anything else in life. I'd recommend you call the facility, and see why someone there thought it was a problem. They need to occasional be reminded they have a job because of you, the user.
 
queeno said:
i wouldnt worry about it, there are plenty of cry babys in ATC that love to bitch when ever thay have to actually work.
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A lot of pilots bitch when someone does that then hits a mountain prior to ATC pulling up the clearance too. It's happened twice to Biz Jets departing KSDM. Reba McEntire lost eight members of her band that very way. To this day most pilots blame the controller.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
You got a cell phone. Get your clearance on the ground, tell ATC you'll depart VFR and activate your IFR once airborne. Mush safer, much simpler. If you have to fly below Class A for 50 miles that's the price you pay.
 
I prefer it when pilots depart airports and pick up the IFR in the air (as long as they have an IFR on file). I loathe hearing the Flight Service line start ringing. Some of the people in Flight Service are extremely slow with readbacks and meanwhile tons of people are calling on the frequencies. So by the time you get back to talking to planes, there are about 8 people waiting for you to answer them.
 
washburn26 said:
I prefer it when pilots depart airports and pick up the IFR in the air (as long as they have an IFR on file). I loathe hearing the Flight Service line start ringing. Some of the people in Flight Service are extremely slow with readbacks and meanwhile tons of people are calling on the frequencies. So by the time you get back to talking to planes, there are about 8 people waiting for you to answer them.
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SoCal has a clearance delivery desk which does nothing but give clearances. They don't give releases or cancellations after you land. From any airport in SoCal airspace, controlled or uncontrolled, call 800-448-3724 to pick up your IFR clearance.
 
queeno said:
i wouldnt worry about it, there are plenty of cry babys in ATC that love to bitch when ever thay have to actually work.
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Of course we bitch. That's half the job.

I think this is fairly simple. I'd be willing to bet your destination was somewhere with significant flow control, that's the only real problem with picking up IFR in the air, unless, of course, the sector was extremely busy (this was mentioned earlier). When the controller has to feed you into a slot for a major airport, it's a lot more work, as opposed to picking up IFR in the air to Bob's Airstrip.

Did I mention we bitch a lot, either way?
 
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