Get there as fast as you can or enjoy the ride (and risk ending up behind the curve)?

[flyinghedgehog]

Hi folks,

Here is a dilemma that has been on my mind for quite some time. When I was really low hour it was not much of a dilemma because I did not have much choice anyways. (Most people won't hire anybody who has less than 500TT for a jet gig)

So I was a jump pilot and flew survey and had a blast, living in the moment. I enjoyed the scenery, became best buddies with the planes I flew, looked forward to a nice dinner and a few beers and that was it. I did not even care much about tallying the hours because I knew it would be a while yet till 1500.....

Well now I have about 1400 hours and a lot more options open up. I decided to accept a job offer with a part 135 shop and am scheduled for my first type rating in the Citation next month.

To tell you the truth---I want to buzz around the country for at least another season in an Aztec or Navajo flying survey, then I want to go fly a floatplane for another year, then maybe get on with a Charter operation in the Caribbean for another year flying turbo prop, then maybe spend a year in Alaska, then I will think about part 121 stuff like regional. Will tell you the truth, my endgame is either major, hauling cargo in 747, or getting a corporate job flying the G550. I am leaning more towards major .

But I'm afraid that moving around laterally just for fun for 3-4 years could potentially put me behind on the "power curve". The industry works in its own timing and if you don't attempt to make it in when there are opportunities, you may not make it in at all. I graduated in 2008 and knew what the industry was like then, and know it will happen again, just a matter of when.

I wish I started flying back in high school or something like that. That would have bought myself like 10 extra years to go have fun. Unfortunately that was not how things happened for me.

So what are your thoughts? Go for whatever you want and let the chips fall where they may? Sprint to the finish line? How does your career path look like?

 

[gotWXdagain]

Work to live, don't live to work. If you want to hop around on different varieties of frames and powerplants and operations before you settle down because you enjoy it, do it. You might not top out as high by the time you do get to your "destination" but you'll have a better QOL getting there, and you'll probably be a better pilot for it.

 

[Low&Slow]

How old are you? Graduated college in 2008, or High School? Family?
I would take the adventure over the paycheck, as long as I wasn't starving my kids/wife to do so. Fly twins all over the country for a survey season. Fly floatplanes in Alaska, if you can be so lucky, and/or fly them in the Caribbean or South Pacific too if that's what you want to do. Then switch to 121 if you still have the desire.
You only have one life. Die with memories, not with dreams.

 

[Hacker15e]

There will likely be plenty of 121 flying for decades to come whenever you're ready.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

From more of an all around life perspective, enjoy the ride and do what you want to do before you have things that tie you down(wife, kids, mortgage, etc.).

 

[z987k]

If you want to be bored out of your mind, go fly the jet. Otherwise go have fun with props.

 

[ppragman]

Enjoy the ride, you never know when you won't be able to do it anymore - do you want to look back on adventures or "yet another overnight in DTW?"

 

[Flyinthrew]

I'll go the other way as a bit of a thought experiment. Secure your financial freedom now. Then retire from 121 early and fly a Van on floats into the sunset. Better to be a 55yo with a huge nest egg flying whatever the hell you want in your flip-flops and not caring if your 1st class medical gets sniped, than living with your parents when you're thirty while you're trying to 'find yourself' followed by slaving until mando retirement.

 

[milleR]

I'll go the other way as a bit of a thought experiment. Secure your financial freedom now. Then retire from 121 early and fly a Van on floats into the sunset. Better to be a 55yo with a huge nest egg flying whatever the hell you want in your flip-flops and not caring if your 1st class medical gets sniped, than living with your parents when you're thirty while you're trying to find yourself followed by slaving until mando retirement.

I'm kind of in this camp too. No question, building time and memories are a lot of fun. But there's no reason in a couple years when you're on 2nd or 3rd year mainline FO pay that you can't start glider lessons, maybe buy a taildragger and spend your 18-20 days off each month flying to every grass strip in your region. Great memories and experiences don't have to solely come at the very beginning of your career and given your chosen industry I'd want a seniority number that was as low as humanly possible.

 

[ppragman]

You can't predict you'll be able to retire - trust me, do what you want now. The industry is great right now, it won't be forever.

 

[Flyinthrew]

You can't predict you'll be able to retire - trust me, do what you want now. The industry is great right now, it won't be forever.

All the more reason to strike while the iron is hot, though. Make hay while the sun is shining, and whatever other inane yet apt colloquialisms you can think of.

 

[NickH]

I'm going to assume by 'there' you mean 'death', and leave an obvious answer.

 

[milleR]

You can't predict you'll be able to retire - trust me, do what you want now. The industry is great right now, it won't be forever.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I simply can't fathom how anybody who has made a career in aviation can say this. By its very nature this industry is incredibly volatile and getting a seat at the table as early as possible can be the difference between a paycheck and the unemployment line. Maybe it takes a bankruptcy and seeing your number in a furlough notice to get this point across, but I'll definitely agree that this industry won't be great forever and use your point to reinforce my own.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old fart- this is a career, not a hobby. Have fun in your off time.

 

[Plata]

Put me in the group who advocate doing all the fun flying before going 121. My observation of 121 pilots is that they don't really enjoy the flying part of their job very much. They like the big paycheck and all the freedom it gives them, but the flying is not especially rewarding. The 121 guys who still have a passion for flying often have a GA plane (or two), and seem far more interested in that sort of flying.

 

[Kingairer]

I'm thinking your priorities will change as you get older, and I would try to anticipate that as made choices today. Id really look at what your end goal is, and if its the majors, I think you need to go on that track now. Less pressure if you want to end up in the corporate aviation world or cargo 747. We are all going to be replaced in 20 years by drones, so forget everything I said.

 

[milleR]

I think this entire thread would have been unimaginable just a couple of years ago. Can anybody here with more than 10 years working as a professional pilot look back over the decade and say "oh yeah, I would've recommended another couple years of survey flying just for funsies" before the last year or two?

If (and that's a huge if, but the OP said they were leaning this way) a major airline is the end goal then I don't know how there can be any reasonable advice beyond get a number and get it today.

 

[z987k]

I'm kind of in this camp too. No question, building time and memories are a lot of fun. But there's no reason in a couple years when you're on 2nd or 3rd year mainline FO pay that you can't start glider lessons, maybe buy a taildragger and spend your 18-20 days off each month flying to every grass strip in your region. Great memories and experiences don't have to solely come at the very beginning of your career and given your chosen industry I'd want a seniority number that was as low as humanly possible.

Ya, because everybody makes it to 20 days off a month and 250-300k paychecks. The far more likely scenario is that he'd get 12-13 days off a month. In 3 day blocks. For 100k a year.
You can make 100k a year in a DHC-2/3. I know what I'd rather fly.

 

[milleR]

Ya, because everybody makes it to 20 days off a month and 250-300k paychecks. The far more likely scenario is that he'd get 12-13 days off a month. In 3 day blocks. For 100k a year.
You can make 100k a year in a DHC-2/3. I know what I'd rather fly.

I don't disagree about the flying. It's fun, it's challenging, it's a character building experience. I wouldn't trade my time as a CFI, flying traffic watch, 402's/PC-12's/KA's single pilot or my 3+ years in dash 8's for anything. It was amazing.

But the OP has some of this experience already. This isn't a 250 wonder, they've been working and learning for 1400 hours.

I can't speak first hand to the schedule and would have to rely on the multiple mainline pilots we have on this site to correct me on that but even as a regional pilot I had 14+ days off after the first 6 months. Using the APC pay rates a UAL second year FO is making at least $125/hour. 85 hours per month x 12 = 102000 but hell, I don't know what's a reasonable expectation.

What I do know is the airlines are hiring like gangbusters right now. That is projected to continue, but airlines always hire until they furlough. Assuming things are going to be great and burning up time (and SENIORITY) doing alternative jobs because they are fun instead of putting your career first is just foolish in my simple opinion. There are zero guarantees, but at the very least try and stack the deck in your favor. Survey flying just isn't going to be all that useful after a point.

 

[MikeD]

Chase the upgrade. Forever and always.

The grass is always greener .

 

[Hiboglossi]

I say get there as fast as possible, especially having not gotten there as fast as possible myself. In not going to the airlines as soon as absolutely possible, I forfeited a wealth of opportunity. Seniority is everything in the airlines, and I would advise you to go the airlines as soon as possible if you want to make it to a major eventually, especially considering they are hiring at a record rate right now. I also think it is very likely the music will stop soon, since it's now been more than 7 years since the last recession, which means we're probably just about due for another one. One reason the airlines have been so profitable in the last few years is low oil prices, but that won't last forever and oil is so cheap right now its price will probably revert to the mean any day now. In the long run, I do not see there being as much demand for air travel as there is now. I think anyone who doesn't make it to the majors in the next few years likely never will, so if that is your goal I would advise you to try to get there as fast as possible.

There will likely be plenty of 121 flying for decades to come whenever you're ready.

I actually doubt it, I see demand for air travel dropping drastically over the next few decades. Keep in mind we're probably at an economic crest right now. NAI's DOT approval, and the fact that it will likely lead to more flag-of-convenience carriers operating to the USA, will decimate the U.S. airline industry. Also, while @Kingairer alluded to the replacement of pilots with drones, pilots will only be one of many professions that will likely be replaced with automation in the near future. By some estimates, 47% of today's jobs are likely to be automated out of existence in the next 25 years. I somehow doubt there will be much demand for air travel when nearly half of society is unemployed. http://bigthink.com/philip-perry/47...will-disappear-according-to-oxford-university

We are all going to be replaced in 20 years by drones, so forget everything I said.

This is another reason to get out of survey sooner rather than later. Aerial survey using manned aircraft definitely has an expiration date, although probably not quite as soon as people not familiar with the industry imagine. Meanwhile 121 will likely be one of the last types of operations to use manned aircraft, if only for regulatory reasons.

do you want to look back on adventures or "yet another overnight in DTW?"

That reminded me of the month's worth of "overnights" I had at the Best Western in Madison, AL this time last year while doing survey (not much to do near that hotel, and we were hardly flying thanks to the weather). That was some adventure, all right. Admittedly there were many more adventurous times doing survey. But it wasn't all fun, and at the end of the day fun doesn't pay any bills.

I'll go the other way as a bit of a thought experiment. Secure your financial freedom now. Then retire from 121 early and fly a Van on floats into the sunset. Better to be a 55yo with a huge nest egg flying whatever the hell you want in your flip-flops and not caring if your 1st class medical gets sniped, than living with your parents when you're thirty while you're trying to 'find yourself' followed by slaving until mando retirement.

This. Especially since in the future there are likely to be fewer and fewer opportunities to secure financial freedom, thanks to technological unemployment like I mentioned above.