German Wings A320 crashed

Boris Badenov said:
Well how are the damned spoilers actuated, anyway? I'm 100% certain...ok 99% certain that it had springs for feel. Now I'm sad AND confused.

And I am 100% serious in saying that I will be glad to stop by and show you how to fly a Mitsi. But I'm not holding your unfeathering valve, weirdo.
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Springs? Maybe, now I can't remember either. Doesn't sound right though if I'm honest. They're cable actuated that's for sure. Regardless, I'd be happy to remind you of how a mits is meant to be flown (I know, it's been a while for you), whether you like starting the motors or not. :)
 
MaRiO FDZ said:
Heheh I've heard SO much about the MU-2, but the common denominator is always the pilots who've flown it talk like the manhandled a T-Rex into submission. LOVE that.
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I think @milleR would very likely agree with me that it's a surprisingly easy airplane to fly, provided everything is working. Basically just go fast and you'll be fine. Even if you don't know how it works.
 
milleR said:
Springs? Maybe, now I can't remember either.
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I knew it! I'm sticking with my story. I think there's a piston of some kind (probably two) that move the things up and down. Now we just need to place a friendly wager...say, your Mitsi vs. my 1995 4Runner, and find a systems book...
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Nothing ever negatives an opinion, it is an opinion after all. But having flown non-Airbus planes and Airbus ones does give a better understanding of it. A stall is a stall. A BirgenAir Boeing 757 took off with *only* the CA side pitot tube blocked. The FO and standby speeds were always accurate. The CA rode the shaker/pusher all the way to the Ocean. All ~190 onboard died.
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And like the CA in the crash you've cited, the AF447 crew didn't know they were stalling either......because of the programming put in place by Airbus engineers and a lack of understanding of "law" programing.
 
Hell and death.

The spoilers are actuated by a cam and pushrod linkage which deflects one spoiler while holding the other in a fisted flush position. The cam is connected by cable to the pilot's control wheel.
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Although I admit I'm trying to figure out what a "fisted flush" position is, and wondering whether it's anything to do with your uh "unfeather valve".

Good thing you didn't take the bet, that thing is more rust than truck. I mean uh, great vehicle, $500, will run forever, it's a Toyota!
 
Boris Badenov said:
I knew it! I'm sticking with my story. I think there's a piston of some kind (probably two) that move the things up and down. Now we just need to place a friendly wager...say, your Mitsi vs. my 1995 4Runner, and find a systems book...
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'95? If it was an '84 I'd consider that a fair deal. SFA or nothing.
 
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Boris Badenov said:
I think @milleR would very likely agree with me that it's a surprisingly easy airplane to fly, provided everything is working. Basically just go fast and you'll be fine. Even if you don't know how it works.
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heheh yeah, I've heard about the flaps and roll rate. A Man's plane. My dad tells me the story he once ran over a dog with the left main once and landed back. Dog broke the arm that keeps the wheel facing the right way. I have much admiration for the plane, I just prefer the King Air hehe.
 
I found the Radar track interesting...

http://avherald.com/h?article=483a5651&opt=0

germanwings_a320_d-aipx_150324_map.jpg
 
Seggy said:
First, RIP to all those involved.



Well, I have time in the AIrbus and Boeing.

Put bluntly, from a Human Factors perspective, you shouldn't have to trick freak an airplane to have it fly properly ESPECIALLY from a known issue that has repeated itself a few times.

Now, with that said, I would have no hesitation to put my family on an Airbus, but it looks like their design logic is becoming more and more flawed as it is exposed over time.
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You say designed logic..... I say the designed pilot is becoming more and more flawed.

And by designed pilot, I mean the pilots coming out these days who are magenta line wonders. (In part, yours truly, but I still have maintained GA flying to keep up on the stick/needle/ball). Stick and rudder skills are dead and buried, and flight managers and AP gurus are todays typically trained airline pilots.

The machine can only take the blame so much. The A320 has been flying since 1988. This particular tail number has been flying since 1991. Which means it flew successfully for 24 years without crashing. It is too premature to know exactly what happened, so I can't fault design logic. Time will tell what really happened.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It is too premature to know exactly what happened, so I can't fault design logic. Time will tell what really happened.
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This is a totally fair point, but excluding this accident (which, if pressed, I'd suspect had nothing to do with Airbus avionics/design logic), there have been a few accidents/incidents recently which suggest that either A) Airbus flight control/avionics/design logic is a bit flawed or B) The training on using aforementioned systems isn't doing its job very well, yes? And the contention that lack of stick and rudder skills is the problem I find...eh, bizarre? At least a bit inverted. The whole point of stick and rudder skills and keeping them sharp is that when either the airplane doesn't do what it's supposed to or you fail to use it correctly, you can just press a button and voila you're flying a regular airplane again. I mean, isn't it?
 
Boris Badenov said:
I knew it! I'm sticking with my story. I think there's a piston of some kind (probably two) that move the things up and down. Now we just need to place a friendly wager...say, your Mitsi vs. my 1995 4Runner, and find a systems book...
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Cables from the control wheel to the wing center section. From there, a system of pushrods connected to bellcranks that actuated the spoilers. No pistons, no hydraulics. I used to rig them.
 
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