Gaining time WITHOUT your CFI

I'd agree with that, but I also disagree. I've had a few CFI's who I could tell were doing the whole CFI gig for no other reason to build time. Its easy to tell after a while, who's in it for time versus who's in it because they want to teach. Those who are truely in it to teach, make leanring much easier, as a student. Those who want to build hours have no real incentive to teach more than the bare minimum for their students.
I totally agree with you. I am quite lucky to have an instructor who i believe is a CFi to teach and not to build time. Others are not as luck as I though. I also think that CFIing is the most respected way to go...from what i have read around here.
 
Gents... a quick word about ag flying...

(I know I also speak for t-cart on this one as well)

It might seem like a super cool job where you can make a lot of money, but...

During the season, you will be away from your family potentially as much or more as a junior reserve pilot who commutes...

If you think 121/35 rest and duty times allow for too much work and not enough rest... they are tame compared to the non existent duty times for part 135 operations.

5+ legs a day becomes a cakewalk when you do 30-40 loads a day... each on with an airplane that is loaded to the gills and is barely wanting to fly.

The list is endless... just like any job, pay is only one part of the equation. Look at the QOL and ask yourself if it is worth it. I personally have worked 28 straight days with somewhere around 150 hours of flight time in that period. 28 days... at least 12 hours a day at work... average of just over 5 hours of flight time per day. Sure, the money was great, but I had no life outside of work.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but those are some of the realities of the job. Also, it is all fun and games until your best friend who you see and fly with almost every day for years suddenly is not there anymore...

Excellent post. I still want to do it, but excellent post.

It has always amazed me a little that people view ag as a "time building job" It really is a career - financially it can be more rewarding than the legacy carriers...but, like you said, nothing is "free" - everything has its price.
 
What's a part 137 operation? Fire Detection sounds very cool - who employs, the USFS?

Alex.
 
What's a part 137 operation? Fire Detection sounds very cool - who employs, the USFS?

Alex.

There's a handful of different fire-bombing companies, not alot, but some. My boss worked for a company called Queen Bee. Most of the pilots that worked there came from the State Department spraying cocaine in Columbia with Bronco's, Air Tractor's, and Thrushes, so the competitiveness and "minimum" requirements was through the roof.
 
So I've looked through the forums for hours now and can't seem to find an answer to this question: does anyone ever get their ATP without instructing?

I realize that instructing is the best way to gain those hours and that it opens up a lot more doors as far as options are concerned, but I really want to hear from someone who DIDN'T do it that way. There has to be some of you out there...

I've got ATP mins (don't have the ticket yet) and then some, and I never instructed a day in my life.

Flight instructing, in reality, is probably your simplest option, but that's entirely your call. Do what works for you. :)

I'm like Firebird2XC then, in that I also don't have a CFI cert. To be honest, I never had any aspirations of becoming an airline pilot. It was a hobby and I had a job that allowed me to put away money into "the having fun" account - most of which went into flying.

When I started this "hobby," in addition to not having any aspirations to be an airline pilot, I didn't want to fly anything with an engine either. I soared for four years, then somehow I found an engine attached to the glider, and it became a 172/172RG/182. Hey - not any less fun than soaring, just different kind of challenges and thought processes required.

Now I didn't have any interest in flying anything with more than one engine, but after my wife (who didn't like flying in a GA airplane) discovered that GA flying allowed us to get to weekend destinations faster, she became a avid supporter, and she practically demanded that I get the second engine added (she thought we'd be safer or that we'd get there faster - not really I tried to explain - I didn't think the benefits gained were worth the extra cost, but I'm not going to argue with the wife about adding on an engine.)

When the 121 regional hiring spree came around, I found myself having acquired all the required certificates for a 121 First Officer position over 10 years, no flight training debt and almost half the hours needed towards an ATP certificate playing real world Microsoft FlightSim everywhere my previous career took me, the Pacific Northwest, the Gulf Coast, Southern California, New England, Hawaii, and Japan, - so lots of VFR flying in different areas of the US and Japan, but not a lot of IMC, and no one had tried to kill me yet other than another non-certificated pilot friend who had buttloads of rotary wing hours, but practically zero time in a fixed wing - he tried to land the 172 at helicopter speeds.

The flying "hobby" was like owning a sailboat, a big black hole where you dumped your money. Eventually I want to get out of bus driving and into flight instructing, so that's my long term goal. - That's my minority position of how one can get to ATP mins with out a CFI - you devote time and money towards it - you need lots of money and you can probably do it faster than I did - the limiting factor will be money. I don't think I'd change the path I took, other than I wouldn't have paid the money to go to MAPD.
 
Gents... a quick word about ag flying...

(I know I also speak for t-cart on this one as well)

It might seem like a super cool job where you can make a lot of money, but...

During the season, you will be away from your family potentially as much or more as a junior reserve pilot who commutes...

If you think 121/35 rest and duty times allow for too much work and not enough rest... they are tame compared to the non existent duty times for part 135 operations.

5+ legs a day becomes a cakewalk when you do 30-40 loads a day... each on with an airplane that is loaded to the gills and is barely wanting to fly.

The list is endless... just like any job, pay is only one part of the equation. Look at the QOL and ask yourself if it is worth it. I personally have worked 28 straight days with somewhere around 150 hours of flight time in that period. 28 days... at least 12 hours a day at work... average of just over 5 hours of flight time per day. Sure, the money was great, but I had no life outside of work.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but those are some of the realities of the job. Also, it is all fun and games until your best friend who you see and fly with almost every day for years suddenly is not there anymore...

Great post ctab,

Hits the nail squarely on the head.
 
Gents... a quick word about ag flying...

(I know I also speak for t-cart on this one as well)

It might seem like a super cool job where you can make a lot of money, but...

During the season, you will be away from your family potentially as much or more as a junior reserve pilot who commutes...

If you think 121/35 rest and duty times allow for too much work and not enough rest... they are tame compared to the non existent duty times for part 135 operations.

5+ legs a day becomes a cakewalk when you do 30-40 loads a day... each on with an airplane that is loaded to the gills and is barely wanting to fly.

The list is endless... just like any job, pay is only one part of the equation. Look at the QOL and ask yourself if it is worth it. I personally have worked 28 straight days with somewhere around 150 hours of flight time in that period. 28 days... at least 12 hours a day at work... average of just over 5 hours of flight time per day. Sure, the money was great, but I had no life outside of work.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but those are some of the realities of the job. Also, it is all fun and games until your best friend who you see and fly with almost every day for years suddenly is not there anymore...


...and it is harder than heck to break into. :(
 
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