GA barred from flying to Kitty Hawk Tommorrow

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I seem to recall a GA plane that was actually crashed into the White House grounds when the Clinton's were in residence there. It caused nothing more than cosmetic damage and the death of the pilot. But, it proved the logic that a plausible threat did/does exist

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Given that statement, the plausible threat only exists to consipracy theorists and lawn caretakers. How about this solution? Instead of hindering citizens of this country, how about making sure INS does their job? The FBI? I don't think a serious threat will stop just b/c a block of airspace has been declared a "no-fly zone." Case in point, obviously this GA pilot in the above example violated a restricted area. What was the response? Nothing. If the same thing happend in a 0-10 nm no fly zone, what would be the response? Same thing, nothing. Either you'll have to ground ALL GA a/c (which wouldn't surprise me), or have fast attack fighters in the air to enforce the no-fly zone.
 
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I doubt from three blocks away you'd do more than rattle the windows.

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With a tractor trailer full of explosives? Can anyone tell me how many tons of explosives a tractor trailer could carry?

I'll tell you one thing. It's a hell of a lot more than any GA plane could.
 
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By your argument we should have not worried about airliners crashing into buildings on 9/10/2001. Hey, nobody has ever done it before so there's no way it can happen in the future. ]

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An no one has clubbed the prez in the head with a half full can of spam. but they could should we outlaw half full cans of spam?
 
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Given that statement, the plausible threat only exists to consipracy theorists and lawn caretakers. How about this solution? Instead of hindering citizens of this country, how about making sure INS does their job? The FBI? I don't think a serious threat will stop just b/c a block of airspace has been declared a "no-fly zone." Case in point, obviously this GA pilot in the above example violated a restricted area. What was the response? Nothing. If the same thing happend in a 0-10 nm no fly zone, what would be the response? Same thing, nothing. Either you'll have to ground ALL GA a/c (which wouldn't surprise me), or have fast attack fighters in the air to enforce the no-fly zone.

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We have no idea what steps are taken to enforce these no-fly zones. There may well be fighters flying CAP. The Secret service has a job to do and they do the best they can given the circumstances.

It's a dangerous world out there, and they (the Secret Service) are paid to be paranoid in the protection of the President of the United States, not to be preoccupied with the convience, or lack thereof to GA pilots.

The individual who flew his plane into the White House was an American citizen, the INS would have been powerless to even detect him, not part of thier job.
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An no one has clubbed the prez in the head with a half full can of spam. but they could should we outlaw half full cans of spam?

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Yeah, when that can of spam can move at seven miles a minute under it's own power, weight over 50,000lbs, and carry thousands of gallons of fuel. I can't understand why haven't made it further in life with your clearly superior logic and debating skills.
 
Sorry, DTA, I've got to disagree with you a little here. Yes, it is the job of the Secret Service to protect the President to the best of their ability. However, I do believe there must be a compromise between securing our nation and infringing on our freedom, and 30NM TFRs for the President crosses that line. 5NM TFRs, I would have no problem with. Also, the idea that air carrier aircraft are exempt from these restrictions, and GA aircraft are not, when the air carrier aircraft were responsible for the 9/11 attacks in the first place, is absolutely ludicrous.

I'm with Tony about the lunacy in DC as well. DCA shouldn't be closed discriminatorily to GA aircraft, nor should these convoluted procedures for the DC3 exist. This is why I happily send my $39 to AOPA every year ... they're doing all they can to protect the airspace, and airports, from unfair closure and restriction.

FL270
 
One other question for President Bush bashers, do you really think the TFRs would be any different if Gore was president?
 
Tired,

I think there is significantly more GA security than you give credit for.

A few examples:

Most AG airports are very small communities and you know everyone on the ramp at any given time.

Even a faily large and active GA airport like KORL has gates and such, and I know about 80% of the people I pass by.

I dread the day when they think they need to put in metal detectors and other such nonsense at GA airports!
 
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An no one has clubbed the prez in the head with a half full can of spam. but they could should we outlaw half full cans of spam?

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Yeah, when that can of spam can move at seven miles a minute under it's own power, weight over 50,000lbs, and carry thousands of gallons of fuel. I can't understand why haven't made it further in life with your clearly superior logic and debating skills.

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My point often missed on the dim-witted, is you can't out law what the outlaws will do. it is the gun control argument, penalizing the innocent does nothing to stop the guilty.
 
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One other question for President Bush bashers, do you really think the TFRs would be any different if Gore was president?

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Yes. Because we would have executed the plan to take out bin Laden that was handed to the incoming administration if Gore was the President.

Without bin Laden, there's a good chance September 11 doesn't happen. And without September 11, we would have been fat, dumb, and happy and 3,000 Americans would still be alive, the WTC would still be standing, and there are no expanded TFRs, ADIZs, or FRZs.
 
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you can't out law what the outlaws will do. it is the gun control argument, penalizing the innocent does nothing to stop the guilty.

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Is this an indication of your thougts on Gun control, that sounds like an interesting thread to start
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You know, a little something to get the ole blood pressuer up.
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FL270,
I’m in agreement about TFR’s. I just think we need a workable solution, saying they shouldn’t exist just doesn’t fit the mold of today’s security concerns.
 
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Yes. Because we would have executed the plan to take out bin Laden that was handed to the incoming administration if Gore was the President.

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Must be nice to know such things. Who would have won the Red Sox-Cubs World Series had it been played?
 
I'm sure the security people are the ones driving the TFRs, and it would be the same for any president. But at some point the president needs to say "enough, this is interfering with people's lives excessively".

Look at P-67 on the New York sectional. When Bush decides to take a vacation to Kennebunkport, B19 is completely shut down for the duration (except police, medical, etc.). Nobody buying gas, nobody renting planes, no CFIs giving any lessons, etc. Is there any compensation for that?
 
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Must be nice to know such things. Who would have won the Red Sox-Cubs World Series had it been played?

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Not the Sox.
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Yes. Because we would have executed the plan to take out bin Laden that was handed to the incoming administration if Gore was the President.

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Must be nice to know such things.

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Let's think this through. Gore probably was involved in the planning of the mission to take out bin Laden. After all, he was the Vice President at the time. Given that, isn't it logical to conclude that the plan would have been executed?
 
I guess the same as Cheney is about things. Maybe that is not cool to say to Left Wingers....ah who cares.

Is it really about left and right. Just drink some beers and realize its about ME ME ME.
 
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Must be nice to know such things. Who would have won the Red Sox-Cubs World Series had it been played?

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Not the Sox.
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But growing up a Cardinals fan and watching the Cubs fall flat on their face time after time(which I still enjoy seeing), I don't think they could have pulled it off either.
 
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his appearance stopped the very activity he was commemorating!

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Did I see the wrong program? The program, the documentaries, etc. I've seen were specific to commemorating the Wright Bros. flight. All types of aviation were a result of that flight, but that was THE flight.

Anyway, he is the president. Basically the king of the country, numero uno, top tamale, etc. there will be some change wherever he goes for as long as he's there.
 
Huh? What are you trying to say?

As far as a solution to these problems, it's simple. Reduce the TFR space back down to the two, three, or five miles that they used to be, and give more notice to people that they are coming!

That worked for, well, since the beginning of the days of flight!
 
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