GA barred from flying to Kitty Hawk Tommorrow

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I would have gladly been at Kitty Hawk today, and shared a bit of history with the President of the United States. It would have been an honor.

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And many of us would have loved to have done that, too. Unfortunately, el Presidente won't let us.

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If there is a will, there is a way. If I was that determined go to Kitty Hawk today, I would have gone. TFR or not, there are ways to get there.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know when the President decided to attend the event?
 
THAT'S RIGHT! that is the point.... now - what can WE (even as a collective) do about it besides complain?
 
Tony,
Your complaining about the President is beyond reason. The anniversary of one of the seminal events in human history, and you begrudge the President of the United States being there? Yet, you complain that he isn’t at the funeral of every fallen US Soldier. How many of your detested TFR’s would that cause? Drop the double standars.

Pilots who wanted to go to Kitty Hawk should have been aware of the TFR’s and have planned accordingly. If they didn’t, then “hard cheese” to them. The President should not be taken to task for any potential inconvenience that his presence at any event might cause an individual citizen.

I’m not a fan of TFR’s either, but for now they are a necessary evil, one that we’ll just have to learn to live with until another solution presents its self.
 
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Your complaining about the President is beyond reason. The anniversary of one of the seminal events in human history, and you begrudge the President of the United States being there?

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Can't speak for Tony, but I can speak for myself. I don't begrudge the President being there, in fact I applaud it. What I begrude is the roving TFRs and the misconception of both security and supposed danger the TFRs present to the public. I am in favor of providing security for the president, but this administration has taken it to extremes.

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Pilots who wanted to go to Kitty Hawk should have been aware of the TFR’s and have planned accordingly. If they didn’t, then “hard cheese” to them. The President should not be taken to task for any potential inconvenience that his presence at any event might cause an individual citizen.

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That's the problem with TFRs. Sometimes you don't know b/c they pop up at the last minute. If you were flying in IFR, you had to reserve your slot MONTHS ago. VFR, probably about the same. Think the TFR was published when these people made their plans, booked their hotels, and arranged for hangars or tie-downs. In all likelihood, the TFR was published in the last 48 hours, so they had to either do some SERIOUS shuffling or cancel altogether. And the last time I checked, the president was elected to serve the people, not vice versa.

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I’m not a fan of TFR’s either, but for now they are a necessary evil, one that we’ll just have to learn to live with until another solution presents its self.

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I think this is the point that causes our differences in almost all the above arguements. I do NOT think the TFRs are a necessary evil. They are extremist (why in the name of God is there a permanent TFR over Disney except for the fact that the Rat doesn't want the GA planes flying over taking pictures), and the government is taking a 'if you don't like it, tough luck' attitude in the name of security. I'm all for security if done intelligently, but for the most part a majority of whay I have seen have been knee-jerk reactions to an event 2 years ago. By most arguements, the TSA should regulate and scan everyone renting a Ryder truck thanks to Oklahoma City. However, that would incovenience a large portion of the voting public instead of a small section.
 
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(why in the name of God is there a permanent TFR over Disney except for the fact that the Rat doesn't want the GA planes flying over taking pictures)

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Because, there is no place that better deserves to be bombed than the real evil empire
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Because, there is no place that better deserves to be bombed than the real evil empire
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True True...
 
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When I was a kid, then, President Ford came to my sleepy little town. One of our neighbors (a blustery type, always wanting to be heard) threw a fit about how traffic had been backed up, helicopter noise, police everywhere etc.

My Father (an immigrant) simply replied; I am proud to be in the company of the President of the United States, no matter what the temporary inconvenience.

I would have gladly been at Kitty Hawk today, and shared a bit of history with the President of the United States. It would have been an honor.

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I thought we kicked the British out because we didn't want to worship the leadership like a monarchy. We should all have respect for the presidency but he should be a little more considerate, knowing everything stopes where ever he goes.

Mahesh
 
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I thought we kicked the British out because we didn't want to worship the leadership like a monarchy. We should all have respect for the presidency but he should be a little more considerate, knowing everything stopes where ever he goes.

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You must have had a different history teacher than I did.

I thought the issues were taxation without representation, quartering soldiers in the homes of civilians etc. I don't remember anything about worshiping the monarchy; maybe I was out sick that day.
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I thought the issues were taxation without representation, quartering soldiers in the homes of civilians etc. I don't remember anything about worshiping the monarchy; maybe I was out sick that day.

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Almost correct,

those issues were important and included... but the separation from a monarchy and an transforming into a republic was equally as important, as a matter of fact people like Washington, were somewhat disappointed ( nearing the end of the war) that the results of the American revolution was leading to an unforeseen democratic outcome. (vs a republic)
 
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Tony,
Your complaining about the President is beyond reason. The anniversary of one of the seminal events in human history, and you begrudge the President of the United States being there? Yet, you complain that he isn’t at the funeral of every fallen US Soldier. How many of your detested TFR’s would that cause? Drop the double standars.

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Oh, give me a freaking break here, would ya?

Did I say that Bush should have attended the funerals of every single soldier that died due to his unneccesary attack of Iraq? Please point out one time where I said that. You can't, because I didn't. I said that it was ridiculous that he went and met with the families with dead Brits but not with dead Americans.

And where do you get the idea that I think Bush should NOT have been at the ceremonies commerating 100 years of flight? You will note that I said many of us would have liked to have shared the occasion with him, but we could not due to ridiculous TFRs that do NOTHING to protect the President.

The two are not even the SLIGHTEST bit related.
 
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You will note that I said many of us would have liked to have shared the occasion with him, but we could not due to ridiculous TFRs that do NOTHING to protect the President.


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If that is why you didn't go....you didn't want to go very bad. Where there is a will there is a way. A small inconvenience of a TFR would not have hindered my going or not.
 
Then you are saying a few funerals and the accompanying TFR’s would be okay? What if one of the loved ones was a pilot and planed to fly to the funeral?

I’m just pointing out that you seem to bash Bush on any occasion.

I'm just trying to figure out where you really stand.
 
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Yeah, and so could a truck bomb, or a guy on a grassy knoll or book depository. Are we going to ban all trucks from being anywhere near the President now? And ban all grassy knolls? And all book depositories?

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Why don't you do rent a Ryder truck and see if you could get it close enough to the president to cause harm? I'm sure the Secret Service has those covered along with watching all the buildings that are in the area where the President is.

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GA had NOTHING to do with any terrorist attacks anywhere. Period. Name one instance where GA was used in a terrorist attack, and don't tell me about that joker who flew his plane into a building in Tampa. That was a suicide and if he did it with a car, nobody would have even noticed.

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By your argument we should have not worried about airliners crashing into buildings on 9/10/2001. Hey, nobody has ever done it before so there's no way it can happen in the future. The airliners are screened, and so are to some degree are part 135 operations. However, there is no security for general aviation operations. There is no screening for pilots or passengers and you can walk onto the ramp on any GA airport and do whatever you want. I think a 10nm TFR is reasonable, a fast aircraft could cover those 10nm in about 1.5 minutes, not giving much warning to the President and the Secret Service.

I doubt anyone that has posted in this thread is personally inconvenienced. Yes, it is unfortunate that some people's plans will have to change, but there are plenty of alternatives. Fly in before the TFR starts, or fly to a nearby airport and drive the last part.
 
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Why don't you do rent a Ryder truck and see if you could get it close enough to the president to cause harm?

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I can drive a Ryder truck right up 18th Street if I want to. Delivery trucks go by there all the time. Tractor trailers drive to Constitution Hall, which is about three blocks away from the White House, all the time. Pack that tractor trailer with explosives and I guarantee you that you could do some serious damage to the White House.
 
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I can drive a Ryder truck right up 18th Street if I want to. Delivery trucks go by there all the time. Tractor trailers drive to Constitution Hall, which is about three blocks away from the White House, all the time. Pack that tractor trailer with explosives and I guarantee you that you could do some serious damage to the White House.

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I doubt from three blocks away you'd do more than rattle the windows.

I seem to recall a GA plane that was actually crashed into the White House grounds when the Clinton's were in residence there. It caused nothing more than cosmetic damage and the death of the pilot. But, it proved the logic that a plausible threat did/does exist
 
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I doubt anyone that has posted in this thread is personally inconvenienced. Yes, it is unfortunate that some people's plans will have to change, but there are plenty of alternatives. Fly in before the TFR starts, or fly to a nearby airport and drive the last part.

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Personally incovenienced? No, but almost. I was thinking about flying in for this back in April when I was talking to NC Dept of Tourism at Sun N Fun. Here's what I would have had to do: file my slot pretty darn early (like May or June) to assure a spot to park, etc, rent the airplane (no small amount of change), get the time off from work (which probably would have been a three day deal), get a hotel room (also way in advance), fly the trip there and back. Okay, so let's say I did all that, and I was ready to go. Dec 15th, I'm getting all packed and fly out. Dec 16th, TFR issued which effectively shuts down the airport on the 17th. Well, guess what. Now I either have to fly back and miss everything (totally negating the whole reason I was going in the first place), risk missing a day of work, or rent a car and drive through several states to get home, then pay someone to ferry the plane back. If the TFR had been posted about a week in advance, I wouldn't have AS MUCH of a problem with it. I still stand by my opinion that TFRs serve very little purpose, but if enough advance notice is given, pilots can work around them. 24 hours for a GA flight is NOT enough notice, especially if it is a leisure trip as long as this one would have been.

BTW, according to AOPA, the nearest airport NOT affected by the TFR is 60 miles driving distance. There are I think a couple inside the 35 nm ring (the one you need a xpndr code, but you can still fly), but I don't know how far they are from the site, or even IF you could get a rental car on that late notice.
 
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