Furloughs and open time

I beg to differ with the theory that is a blanket condemnation of those who pick up Open Time. Open Time can be used to rectify bad schedules as well as just grab more cash.

I, for one, frequent the Open Time list to dump off my crappy all-nighter transcons for day flying that is commutable.

Now, if your argument is purely that people are picking up Open Time to max out each month, then I might agree with you. But, each time I pick up Open Time I may gain or lose an hour or so. That doesn't mean I'd pick up 10 hours to max myself out. But, getting rid of a crappy trip for one that's better may add/subtract an hour to my line total.

Does that mean I have no compassion for furloughees? Of course not. But, considering the cyclical nature of the airline business, no one should EVER assume they have a RIGHT to a job. Ask FlyI's #1 pilot.
 
Velo, I think everyone is just talking about picking up extra flying to increase credit hours. If you start the month with 80 hours and end with 80 +/- an hour or two, then no big deal. But if you start with 80 and end up with 90, then we have a problem.
 
Yes, I also don't have a problem with sim instructors who are off the line picking up open time occasionally to keep their skills up. They already have a 96 hour guarantee anyway so its not like they're doing it for a money and flying with a sim instructor who hasn't flown the line for like 6 months is scary.
 
Alright folks, calm the hell down. I saw a couple barbs thrown back and and consider it a early xmas present for not unleashing hell.

If you can't have a civil discussion, don't get involved in it. Especially when you're not directly involved in the discussion at hand as it rings hollow.

Can't handle that? Tooooooo bad.
 
PCL,

The problem is when you start openly condemning using the Open Time list, then every time an open time coded trip shows up on your pairing, someone thinks, "This bastige is forking over some poor furloughed icehole".

And its just not true. If I use Open Time to rectify my crappy schedule, the WHOLE PAIRING is coded with an O for Open Time. Then, the anonymous hate mail starts showing up in your Vfile when you DID NOTHING WRONG.

The bottom line is that a furlough is a MANGEMENT DECISION AND A MANAGEMENT ACTION! Whether they do it due to reduced flying or simply to intimidate the Union, there is VERY LITTLE the pilot group can do to mitigate the effects on those poor guys who have to hit the bricks. Turning against ourselves and castigating our peers who are simply working within their contractual rights benefits one group and one group only...MANAGEMENT!!!!
 
Velocipede said:
PCL,

The problem is when you start openly condemning using the Open Time list, then every time an open time coded trip shows up on your pairing, someone thinks, "This bastige is forking over some poor furloughed icehole".

And its just not true. If I use Open Time to rectify my crappy schedule, the WHOLE PAIRING is coded with an O for Open Time. Then, the anonymous hate mail starts showing up in your Vfile when you DID NOTHING WRONG.

The bottom line is that a furlough is a MANGEMENT DECISION AND A MANAGEMENT ACTION! Whether they do it due to reduced flying or simply to intimidate the Union, there is VERY LITTLE the pilot group can do to mitigate the effects on those poor guys who have to hit the bricks. Turning against ourselves and castigating our peers who are simply working within their contractual rights benefits one group and one group only...MANAGEMENT!!!!
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Velo, I see your point, but I'd say 98% of the people I know that look at open time are doing it to increase their flying, not swap bad trips for good ones. Hell, scheduling 9/10 times won't even approve a swap as it is. But they guys that pick up open time are also helping management a lot. The more people that pick up open time, the leaner the airline can run. Leaner the airline, the fewer pilots to pay benefits/guarantee to. What's cheaper? Paying someone time and a half for 10 hours or another guy 75 hours straight time for guarantee? The fewer pilots, the larger the profit margin, the larger the profit margin, the more bonuses for management. Whereas if someone DIDN'T grab that open time, the staffing levels would need to be increased to cover the flying.
 
A lot of what you say is true, Kell. However, staffing levels at any organization are determined by management, NOT by the amount of time individual pilots fly. Some organizations prefer to offer overtime pay to hiring employees. Even at 150% its cheaper than the benefit packages you have to pay the additional employees.
 
At UPS we got this cool thing in our last contract. If they furlough, we can institute an open time ban. Union can come out and say "nobody pick up open time" and it's perfectly legal.

Not sure how Velo would apply his situation to our contract, but increasing credit hours would be frowned upon if there was a furlough.

Honestly, a ton on open time is picked up at UPS. I don't max out but I cherry pick the easy stuff. Last three pay periods I've done a three day layover in Philly, and two day layover in RNO, and next I have a HNL trip with a first class ticket home on Alaska. Some things you can't say no to. But if there is a furlough and the union calls an end to it. I'll say, and hope, it all comes to a screeching halt for 100% of our pilot group.

There is no reason to pick up open time when your pilot group furloughs.
 
DE727UPS said:
At UPS we got this cool thing in our last contract. If they furlough, we can institute an open time ban. Union can come out and say "nobody pick up open time" and it's perfectly legal.
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This is an excellent contract provision. It should be in all pilot contracts.

Not sure how Velo would apply his situation to our contract, but increasing credit hours would be frowned upon if there was a furlough.
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Maxing out your credit with guys on furlough would be frowned on everywhere. Tweaking your line is something entirely different and the two issues shouldn't be compared.

Honestly, a ton on open time is picked up at UPS. I don't max out but I cherry pick the easy stuff.
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A lot of airlines rely on Open Time, VSA and other incentives to man their flight schedules while minimizing employees. And, as the Delta pilots demonstrated denying VSA to your company can be a heavy weapon in negotiations. The UPS contract provision makes it that much easier to bring that big gun to bear.

There is no reason to pick up open time when your pilot group furloughs.
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Within the above qualifications, I would agree with this statement.
 
DE727UPS said:
At UPS we got this cool thing in our last contract. If they furlough, we can institute an open time ban. Union can come out and say "nobody pick up open time" and it's perfectly legal.
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Very nice. To the best of my knowledge, you're the only pilot group that has such a provision. Other groups should follow that example in future negotiations.
 
DE727UPS said:
At UPS we got this cool thing in our last contract. If they furlough, we can institute an open time ban. Union can come out and say "nobody pick up open time" and it's perfectly legal.

Not sure how Velo would apply his situation to our contract, but increasing credit hours would be frowned upon if there was a furlough.
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You haul boxes. Your contract doesn't count. :)
 
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