Furloughs and Open Time

wick81

Well-Known Member
This may seem like common sense to alot of you, but for some of us at regionals, this is the first furlough situation we have come across.

My understanding is that when people are on furlough, it makes sense not to pick up open time. This is fine with me, if there is open time...bring someone back to fill it right?

I just want clarification, because right now at Colgan there is TONS of flying to be had and it is kind of nice because I am trying to save, pay of debt, drink..blah blah blah...and I'm not sure everyone realizes how this works..so i'm trying to spread the word..
 

L-16B

Well-Known Member
This may seem like common sense to alot of you, but for some of us at regionals, this is the first furlough situation we have come across.

My understanding is that when people are on furlough, it makes sense not to pick up open time. This is fine with me, if there is open time...bring someone back to fill it right?

I just want clarification, because right now at Colgan there is TONS of flying to be had and it is kind of nice because I am trying to save, pay of debt, drink..blah blah blah...and I'm not sure everyone realizes how this works..so i'm trying to spread the word..
im guessin your not on the q? cuz i dont think we had much open if any this month due to the last 2 q's being late. I got some trips taken away in favor of hot reserve.
 

TUCKnTRUCK

That guy
I guess i take a different stance...

If you know your airline may be moving towards furlough, picking up open time may lead them to keep a trim operation. When Furlough time comes, stop...

At Colgan you know they are planning for November. Get as many hours as you can right now, to keep staffing to a minimum, then end of September, stop calling.

Then again, mind games with management might now be the best. If you are facing the furlough block at colgan, right now i say fly your *** off, and save some money... Nobody is Furloughed yet, and i know Colgan doesn't want to furlough. If they reduce everybody's lines to 75 hours exactly, i am pretty sure they wouldn't have to send anybody home
 

wick81

Well-Known Member
Thats pretty much what I was saying...pick up time now, then when furlough time comes stop...
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Just a warning, if you're going to cease flying extra trips in open time... which I completely agree with refraining from doing so, just make sure it's a personal decision rather than an concerted effort.

If the company presses the issue, they can shop for judges that will punish the group for not volunteering to fly voluntary overtime at historic levels or some crap like that. I can't remember the words for it but we got slapped down for that a few year back.

Godspeed, everyone.
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
Also if you are junior manned by scheduling, not much you can do about it, you can refuse but then if they draft you, you really have to do it.

Speaking for myself, personally, once guys hit the streets I will not be picking up any open time.

I am going to be busy come November and for a while. Getting into real estate during that time to diversify myself.
 

wick81

Well-Known Member
Just a warning, if you're going to cease flying extra trips in open time... which I completely agree with refraining from doing so, just make sure it's a personal decision rather than an concerted effort.

If the company presses the issue, they can shop for judges that will punish the group for not volunteering to fly voluntary overtime at historic levels or some crap like that. I can't remember the words for it but we got slapped down for that a few year back.

Godspeed, everyone.
hmmm..interesting point...I have no doubt that unfortunately there are people that will pick up open time...

I know how drafting works..i'll do that...but I pick up a daytrip or two a month just by myself..so no more of that...
 

WalterSobchak

Well-Known Member
Also if you are junior manned by scheduling, not much you can do about it, you can refuse but then if they draft you, you really have to do it.

Speaking for myself, personally, once guys hit the streets I will not be picking up any open time.

I am going to be busy come November and for a while. Getting into real estate during that time to diversify myself.
You mean you guys can't just turn your phone off??? The only way we can be junior manned is if you answer the phone.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
You mean you guys can't just turn your phone off??? The only way we can be junior manned is if you answer the phone.
Over here they're getting state of the art in "contacting" people for junior assignments. They're favorite trick lately is to put it on your dispatch release (in the remarks section) for a flight you're already flying. So either you get "notified" automatically or you're not reviewing the dispatch release you just signed thoroughly.

I think ALPA doesn't like this very much.
 

Cav

Former Maddog Whisperer
Over here they're getting state of the art in "contacting" people for junior assignments. They're favorite trick lately is to put it on your dispatch release (in the remarks section) for a flight you're already flying. So either you get "notified" automatically or you're not reviewing the dispatch release you just signed thoroughly.

I think ALPA doesn't like this very much.
That's unbelievable. Dispatch releases are for pilots and dispatchers...the remarks are reserved for operational information. This should definitely NOT include scheduling info. Unreal.
 

Teller1900

Well-Known Member
Over here they're getting state of the art in "contacting" people for junior assignments. They're favorite trick lately is to put it on your dispatch release (in the remarks section) for a flight you're already flying. So either you get "notified" automatically or you're not reviewing the dispatch release you just signed thoroughly.

I think ALPA doesn't like this very much.
I haven't seen that yet, but I have seen them call station personnel and have them withhold the release until the errant crew member calls scheduling...they love doing that.
 

Cav

Former Maddog Whisperer
Don't you guys have some sort of guideline about what does and does not constitute notification of a JM assignment? At XJT you can be contacted by phone (if a line holder don't answer) or physically JMed by a crew tracker or chief pilot in the airport. Schedulers here can't use dispatch. In fact a dispatcher one day told me via ACARS when I asked him a hotel question that they are not permitted to give any scheduling information out for our own protection. Sounds like some of you guys need to start filing some grievances.
 

Cav

Former Maddog Whisperer
Over here they're getting state of the art in "contacting" people for junior assignments. They're favorite trick lately is to put it on your dispatch release (in the remarks section) for a flight you're already flying. So either you get "notified" automatically or you're not reviewing the dispatch release you just signed thoroughly.

I think ALPA doesn't like this very much.
Or you could just call dispatch to have the release ammended. :)

By the way, why is scheduling involved in the dispatch of aircraft? Do they do both jobs or something?
 

wick81

Well-Known Member
No you can turn your phone off and ignore them..or just don't answer, the only time it gets tricky is that we are theoretically supposed to check out at the end of a pairing, thats when they get you. If you forget to check out...i have had station personnel stop me, etc...
 

Airdale

Well-Known Member
That is one thing about RAH's Union contract that I absolutely-without a doubt LOVE. No Junior manning!!

I was drafted/JM'd so many times at Colgan that it made my blood boil. They purposely staffed so thin and put that weight on the backs of every pilot. I don't take well to being awarded days off only to have them taken away. That stuff should stay in the military.

Now, I love it. I still get phone calls on my days off and on my last day of a trip, but I am politely asked whether or not I would like to work some overtime. I've agreed to overtime a few times already at Captain-like payrates. Its awesome. Sorry...I'm just so happy to be done with JM'ing....:D
 

Cav

Former Maddog Whisperer
That is one thing about RAH's Union contract that I absolutely-without a doubt LOVE. No Junior manning!!

I was drafted/JM'd so many times at Colgan that it made my blood boil. They purposely staffed so thin and put that weight on the backs of every pilot. I don't take well to being awarded days off only to have them taken away. That stuff should stay in the military.

Now, I love it. I still get phone calls on my days off and on my last day of a trip, but I am politely asked whether or not I would like to work some overtime. I've agreed to overtime a few times already at Captain-like payrates. Its awesome. Sorry...I'm just so happy to be done with JM'ing....:D
Agree it's a great part of your contract. I wish JM'ing was not such a part of the regional airline culture.
 

Airdale

Well-Known Member
Agree it's a great part of your contract. I wish JM'ing was not such a part of the regional airline culture.
I don't think it should be part of any Airline culture. What is this, the Luftwaffe? Awarded days off should be stay awarded days off. If your employer has the right to terminate your job for refusing to work on days off, thats a big flaw in Corporate America. Another reason why I hate it. I got called in to work on many days off when I was in the military, but its different when you work for Uncle Sam and stars and stripes.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Eh, it's not just the regionals. I got JMed at SWA a couple of times.....as a ramper. Just happened to be the lowest guy on the totem pole with that day off. When there was a huge company event the next day, you'd even see the senior guys swipe out and run for the employee bus so they wouldn't get tagged. Hell, I got extended at DISNEY a few times, so don't think it's strictly an airline thing. A lot of jobs have the "We're gonna need you to come in on Saturday" policy. It's one of those, if you don't like it, quite, type things. When I was at XJT as a ramper/agent, their policy was people work flights, not really time slots (not sure if it's still that way or if that varies from station to station). I got stuck at work an extra 3 hours b/c of a broken plane that was "my" flight. Now, if that happened frequently, that woulda caused me to part ways with XJT a little sooner. Nice thing about SWA was you worked a time slot. If they needed you to stay, they could make you, but it was in reverse seniority order. 9/10 times the senior guys would volunteer to stay for extra $$$. XJT wasn't really much extra cash since you never really worked enough to go over 40 hours in a week anyway.

Now on open time, I whole heartedly agree. No one on furlough, work your butt off. In fact, by doing so, you might actually be saving people from being furloughed. If you've got guys on the street, just work what you're scheduled and try to keep from getting JMed.
 

Airdale

Well-Known Member
Eh, it's not just the regionals. I got JMed at SWA a couple of times.....as a ramper. Just happened to be the lowest guy on the totem pole
Haha...thats the thing at Colgan. You're always the junior guy on the todem pole with 20+ bases and the high turn over rate and the fact that they never really had *reserves*. Things might have changed since I left, but I doubt it.
 

wick81

Well-Known Member
That is a REALLY frustrating thing about Colgan is all the bases. You could be pretty senior, and still end up with a crap schedule because one guy ahead of you is senior at a base with only three lines. I would love hub basing...just so I could get a schedule that actually matches my seniority in the company a little bit more..
 
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