Furloughed Pilots Refusing Recall?

skydog said:
Seems to me it is kind of like process serving. The server has to positively identify the person being served. If crew scheduling cannot verify the identity of the speaker, or the presences of the pilot, then how can they draft you? Just have someone else answer the phone. The conversation should go like this
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There aren't that many crew schedulers at the airline and even though you have several thousand pilots, keep in mind that all of the telephone calls are recorded and they keep notes. The one crew scheduler who you play 'the game' with is going to be in control of your schedule, re-routes and whatnot and there are occasions that they can help you out of a tight spot or tell you to 'read the contract buster, I can't help'.

And if you anger a crew scheduler by playing games, they start playing games too. Many of uou missed an enlightening "Meet and Greet" in PHX where we got to hear about what happens behind the scenes in crew scheduling when pilots don't play nice.

It ain't pretty, trust me.

Just don't identify yourself and you should be fine. Remember, the telephone is for your convenience, not Crew Scheduling's.
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Depends on the airline. If your airline requires a telephone number, that's your employer and don't expect to get away with elementary school jokes like "I'm Donald Duck, who's askin' ?" because you might get pulled into the chief pilot's office and it wouldn't suprise me if they brought the telephone recordings along with them!

Hell, I would! :)

And if you're working for a non-union airline, you're probably toast.
 
Don't get me wrong, I do understand the world of crew scheduling, at least for a certain 747 cargo airline with a pilot base at JFK.

I worked as a crew scheduling intern last summer, and the stories I mentined above (the "hello" "hello" "HELLO") were actually true stories.



I saw all sorts of corners being cut (by corners, I mean the pilot contract!).


One particular time, a senior scheduler called up two pilots ON THEIR DAYS OFF (in the middle of their 14 days off), both had an answering machine that turned on, and she said, "New flights for you, you're junior manned, call within 6 HOURS, or you get a missed assignment."

That's EXTREMELY illegal according to the pilot contract at this particular 747 airline. You cannot junior assign during the middle of the days off. You can extend pilots at the end of their 16 day trip, OR junior mann them to start 2 days earlier than their actual start date. Contract spells that out. Pilots are not to be junior manned during the middle of their days off.

Why'd she do it? She was frustrated... the VP of Operations actually came in to the office and chewed us out for not having flights crewed properly. That's why she made that call, clearl frustrated.

It wasn't her fault! What could that poor lady scheduler have done when there just weren't enough pilots?!

So, I hope professional pilots realize, that sometimes these schedulers do stuff because their ass gets chewed out by management, and often it's not their fault. In this case, it was a clear lack of flight crews... the VP of Ops should have hired more pilots. And they eventually did that, and the problem pretty much fixed itself.



Believe me, when I start off as an airline pilot, I may not like scheduling, but I know what it's like to be them. I know their lives, I've walked in their shoes.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Don't get me wrong, I do understand the world of crew scheduling, at least for a certain 747 cargo airline with a pilot base at JFK.

I worked as a crew scheduling intern last summer, and the stories I mentined above (the "hello" "hello" "HELLO") were actually true stories.



I saw all sorts of corners being cut (by corners, I mean the pilot contract!).


One particular time, a senior scheduler called up two pilots ON THEIR DAYS OFF (in the middle of their 14 days off), both had an answering machine that turned on, and she said, "New flights for you, you're junior manned, call within 6 HOURS, or you get a missed assignment."

That's EXTREMELY illegal according to the pilot contract at this particular 747 airline. You cannot junior assign during the middle of the days off. You can extend pilots at the end of their 16 day trip, OR junior mann them to start 2 days earlier than their actual start date. Contract spells that out. Pilots are not to be junior manned during the middle of their days off.

Why'd she do it? She was frustrated... the VP of Operations actually came in to the office and chewed us out for not having flights crewed properly. That's why she made that call, clearl frustrated.

It wasn't her fault! What could that poor lady scheduler have done when there just weren't enough pilots?!

So, I hope professional pilots realize, that sometimes these schedulers do stuff because their ass gets chewed out by management, and often it's not their fault. In this case, it was a clear lack of flight crews... the VP of Ops should have hired more pilots. And they eventually did that, and the problem pretty much fixed itself.



Believe me, when I start off as an airline pilot, I may not like scheduling, but I know what it's like to be them. I know their lives, I've walked in their shoes.
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Three words bro:

Not my problem.
 
John Herreshoff said:
Three words bro:

Not my problem.
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Oh I understand.


It's a chain reaction. Pilots point to crew sked. Crew sked points to hiring department for pilots (Chief Pilots' offices), Chief pilots offices point to VP and other upper management, and they sit around and act about 6 months late...

that's how it was at this 747 cargo airline as of Summer 2005.
 
There are financial incentives to flying over time however at some airlines.

At my employer, they're very roughly as follows:

1. "Green Slip" - basically if you're already at the monthly limit, you're paid 150% of your normal hourly rate.
2. "Green Slip with Conflict" - basically means that if you've got three on, three off and three on, but after your first trip you're given a trip that interferes with the second trip, they'll pay you 150% of your hourly rate for the extra flying, drop the next trip and also pay you for it.
3. "Inverse Assignment" - Non-voluntary flying paid at 200% of your hourly rate.

It's meant to create a financial disincentive for your airline to understaff the airline. However, it's cheaper to pay for overtime than to bring another pilot on the payroll.
 
You don't want to F with crew scheudling. That person you screw with on the phone might be the same person that is up to approve a trip drop or swap down the line. It'll either get lost or denied. It's just easier to let it ring and go to voicemail.

Now, if they call me on my day off, leave me a message that says "You're junior manned" on my voice mail, and I get a missed trip, I'll just notify the compliance committee and grieve it so fast it'll make their heads spin.

So far at this airline, if you let it ring, they just go to the next poor soul. A few weeks ago, they were junior manning CAs left and right. Most just didn't answer the phone, but at least one poor guy did.....
 
Doug, that's how SWA views staffing for ground crews. It's easier to pay OT in the busy periods than have too many people during slow periods. Plus, that's fewer people to pay for benefits. Works out well for the ground crew since you don't have all those crazy QOL and rest issues. :)
 
This is something they won't teach you at MAPD CC, but if you want to be viewed as a professional pilot act like one AT ALL TIMES when dealing with the company. To play games when scheduling calls is foolish. A true experience with me.

I was off on a Sunday and was suppose to travel the next day Monday to start a trip Monday afternoon. Here is the call I got at 1:00 PM

Crew Scheduling (CS): We need you at Newark in two hours to Deadhead out we need you earlier and we have no one else. We are drafting you and giving you draft pay.

Me: Nope not going to happen.

CS: Why? We are drafting you, you HAVE to be there.

Me: At a family BBQ, had two beers already, I can't DH

CS: Ok, click

Was that the end of it? NOPE! The following trip what was suppose to be 4 days away from home turned into 10.

Just don't answer the phone!
 
kellwolf said:
Doug, that's how SWA views staffing for ground crews. It's easier to pay OT in the busy periods than have too many people during slow periods. Plus, that's fewer people to pay for benefits. Works out well for the ground crew since you don't have all those crazy QOL and rest issues. :)
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Rampers.... Rest, Whats that? Right now I am in the middle of 5 consecutive 10am -close (1am) shifts...folowed by 1 day off then a 430am - close tnen another 3 15's. 90 hours a week of work.

Some days I have no Idea how I get home, I just know I wake up in my bed. Just like those drunk staggers in college. At least there is no DWF (Driving while faitgued) laws.
 
You know how you can spare yourself all the games and all the confusion and all the trouble of dealing with scheduling when you don't want to?

DON'T ANSWER THE *&^DAMN PHONE!

It's that easy!
 
We'll often get an ACARS to have FO XXX contact crew sked as soon as we get on the ground. Usually that means an Jr. man or extension. You're already at the airport in uniform and they know that's the best time to get you. It's possible to refuse, but you'd better have a good excuse or they will give you a "no show". I saw a captain totally lose it when crew sked told him his kid's birthday wasn't an acceptable excuse and they would no show him for the flight. He had to call the CP to clear everything up. Gotta love dealing with scheduling.

I've had them call me plenty of times on my day off. If I'm looking to make some extra money I'll answer or call back. I've even answered on accident when I don't want to fly and told them I simply wasn't available and they're good with that.

Also, don't piss off crew scheduling. I know some guys at my company who are always rude to them and get mad and complain about scheduling all the time. Being on reserve at my company stinks, but it sure helps to be polite and treat the schedulers with respect. Most of them are good people, and if you treat them well they will usually do the same for you. That always helps when they have control of your life for 20-21 days each month!
 
A favorite trick of a certain airline Bill has worked at (maybe currently, maybe in the past, I'm not naming names....) was to have someone meet the airplane at the gate and grab the pilot for a 'junior manning' assignment right there as he's getting off the plane. So guys would see them standing in the jetbridge and they'd grab their stuff and head for the back and get out via the aft airstairs and bail across the ramp.
 
Where I work, they're sneaky. They will have the gate agent who's always there to meet the flight snag us.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Because that would be lying.

Kids these days!
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Best bet is to turn to Kristie and loudly announce: "Honey, somebody's looking for your husband!" With luck the scheduler will have hung up by the time Kristie gets on the phone.
 
MQAAord said:
A favorite trick of a certain airline Bill has worked at (maybe currently, maybe in the past, I'm not naming names....) was to have someone meet the airplane at the gate and grab the pilot for a 'junior manning' assignment right there as he's getting off the plane. So guys would see them standing in the jetbridge and they'd grab their stuff and head for the back and get out via the aft airstairs and bail across the ramp.
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LOL!! That really happens? Say it ain't so!

Neil
 
Isn't it possible to work more than you legally allowed to? I mean, if they schedule you for 1000 hours in 10 months, what do you do for the last two months of the year?
 
aviategw said:
Isn't it possible to work more than you legally allowed to? I mean, if they schedule you for 1000 hours in 10 months, what do you do for the last two months of the year?
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VACATION!

That being said, to fly 1000 in 10 months you would have to be right up against the 121 FAR limits. While not unheard of, I doubt you can do it for an entire 10 months. By that time, you'd probably get removed from half your flights and deadhead one leg, fly the next. That's what they do here at least.
 
wheelsup said:
VACATION!

That being said, to fly 1000 in 10 months you would have to be right up against the 121 FAR limits. While not unheard of, I doubt you can do it for an entire 10 months. By that time, you'd probably get removed from half your flights and deadhead one leg, fly the next. That's what they do here at least.
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At the rate I'm going on RSV I feel like I could do that. 30 in 7'd twice in the last 3 weeks and I'm at 68 hours of credit this month with 60.2 as far as FAA limits are concerned. I don't think it could be safely done in 10 months.
 
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