Furloughed Pilots Refusing Recall?

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Nope!


I just thought that on your day off, if they're calling you, it's probably to junior mann you to some flight. And that if you don't pick up the phone, then you're "safe." But if you do pick up the phone, can't you play the above as described?
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Doesn't mean they are looking for you to work ON THAT day you are off, what happens if it is the next day or the day after? Then they got a hold of ya, they can draft ya, not to much you can do about it then!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Can't you screw around with crew sked, just like they like to screw with your sked?
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ummmm...no.....

If you pick up the phone, your essentially agreeing to work whenever they *require* you....it's not as easy to do the "well, i'm not available that day"...pretty much the only way to get out of picking up the phone at the wrong time is to tell them you've been drinking within the bottle to throttle rule and that's only if they need you to be there the next day.

we make it a household rule that if the number don't jive on our caller id or phone list, we do not *under any circumstances* pick up the phone or call people back.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Rumor (and you know what they say about rumors) has it that there's a 1:6 ratio of folks that accept recall and those that say, "Ehh... Not today".

I have three furloughed pilots on my sponsor list. One is back, one has been bypassing since 2004 and doing real estate investing and I think "lost the flying bug", and the other hasn't been recalled yet but I betchya he's probably going to elect not to come back for a while if at all.

I guess it's like getting kicked in the nads really hard by a spouse. Some will come back to give her a chance, others get trial separations, others just outright get divorced.
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So was it kinda like starting to bat for the other team for the guy who started selling real estate?
 
CFIse said:
Oh I don't think so - we'll just start the traditional flow-up. Regional pilots will go to the mainline, freight will go to the regionals, CFI's will go to the freight. MAYBE we'll see a shortage of CFIs, but I really doubt that - because either old CFI mills will fire back up or new ones will. You can cram out a lot of CFIs at $60K a pop....... :-)
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Sorry, but I don't see too many freight guys/gals going to the regionals now...I may be wrong, but most of us are just avoiding the (edited to add: regional) airlines altogether. Some are hoping for the majors and acquiring the experience other than in a regional environment, others are just staying out of the mix and hoping for fractional/corporate/major freight jobs.

I agree with most of what you said, but I see mgmt whipsawing everybody until there is just a skeleton of "mainline airlines" and most flying being done at the "mini major" level, with the true mainlines doing intl flights.

Myself personally, I'll just eventually get into flying the "limos", or if I can be a "personal driver to the rich and famous", I'll do that, and leave the "bus" driving to the others.:( :insane:
 
Seggy said:
Doesn't mean they are looking for you to work ON THAT day you are off, what happens if it is the next day or the day after? Then they got a hold of ya, they can draft ya, not to much you can do about it then!
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Say you're on your first of 4 days off.


Now they call you, on that first day off. You can pretty much deduce that they're gonna junior assign you to a flight on your day off (on your next three days off).

So if you pick up the phone, can't you pretend you're not the pilot?

Just be like, "Ohh you mean my brother? Yeah, he's out with some friends at a bar..."


I mean, crew sked won't tell the pilot's brother about the new junior assigned flights, and say, go tell you brohter this...


Will they?
 
why do that when you can just skip picking up the phone all together? why give yourself that kind of grief?

Doug did just get home from a 4 day trip on Friday and actually got called on ACARS (?) Friday afternoon during his last leg of his 4 day trip and asked him to do a 2 day trip starting that day of which he had to respond and say "no" - he got lucky on friday because they could have just automatically rerouted him....then they also called on Saturday morning as well for another trip to start Saturday and continue until his monday 4 day started...leaving him practically zero days off...since he didn't pick up the phone, they just left a message - that's how we know the information

from what i understand, if you pick up the phone, your considered available and they could assign you the trip whether or not it agrees with your sked....now, if they assign you the trip and you don't show because you say "i didn't agree to that, BUT i did pick up the phone" then your ass is on the line. but that's just 2nd hand information because I myself still, after all these years, don't really understand how they can MAKE you work just by answering the phone!
 
"from what i understand, if you pick up the phone, your considered available"

Even since I upgraded, I've been getting two or three calls on my off week. With us, you can just say your not available. My F/O last time likes to toy with them. He'll listen to them rattle off the trips and then say....no, sorry, not available for any of that. Me, I just don't answer my phone.
 
why do that when you can just skip picking up the phone all together?
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Have fun with them! Use your Crank Yankers knowledge!!!


You can play the "line was dead to begin with" trick, right?


You: "Hello?"

Them: "This is crew sked calling for F/O Doug Taylor."

You: "Hello?"

Them: "Yes, hi, this is crew sked calling for F/O Doug Taylor."

You: "HELLO?"

[then hang up]


seems innocent enough?
 
Seems to me it is kind of like process serving. The server has to positively identify the person being served. If crew scheduling cannot verify the identity of the speaker, or the presences of the pilot, then how can they draft you? Just have someone else answer the phone. The conversation should go like this

"Hello"

"May I speak with so and so?"

"He/She is not available"

Can I leave a message?

"No" Click

Just don't identify yourself and you should be fine. Remember, the telephone is for your convenience, not Crew Scheduling's.
 
Daaaaaaaaaaves not heeeeere, man.

in all seriousness, our companie's not smart enought to block thier #. They only have my cell and in the event someone else has it for some reason the name "do not answer" is pretty clear.
 
txpilot said:
I agree with most of what you said, but I see mgmt whipsawing everybody until there is just a skeleton of "mainline airlines" and most flying being done at the "mini major" level, with the true mainlines doing intl flights.
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Well we move in different worlds because the people I know in the freight world are chomping at the bit to get a regional job. I think you may be at a C208 operator named after a Dutch charter carrier, in which case I agree many of those guys are career freight or at least have other aspirations.

Well from a pure business perspective I agree with you. The mainline carriers aren't very good at operating aircraft - for any of a variety of reasons. However they do have HUGE name recognition. A la, McDonalds and Burger King. It's a pure play franchise opportunity.

Mainline does the marketing, sells tickets etc., but all the planes are operated by franchisees. The franchisee decides on the fare and where they fly and pays mainline a percentage of revenue for marketing and operating the ticketing system and for the "right" to paint their aricraft in the mainline paint scheme. Eventually a player would step up to operate international as well, so I don't even see mainline keeping that.

Such a model lets the mainlines divest themselves of all that icky stuff associated with airplanes.

Never happen of course, and if you think pilots have it bad now wait until we operate in that environment, but regardless, if *I* was a mainline CEO that would be the direction I'd be heading.......
 
Kristie said:
because I myself still, after all these years, don't really understand how they can MAKE you work just by answering the phone!
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Somewhere deep in your General Operations Manual it will say that pilots are expected to be available to work except when on mandatory rest. A 4 day off isn't mandatory rest. Now it doesn't say you have to be contactable (although why no airline has thought of that I don't know, chalk at least one up for ALPA) - so if you don't answer your phone you're good to go, but if you do answer your phone you're available for work, and off you go.
 
skydog said:
Just don't identify yourself and you should be fine. Remember, the telephone is for your convenience, not Crew Scheduling's.
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Yeeees, except you are required to provide the company with a contact number and the company can reasonably assume you can be contacted through that number. Hanging up, claiming "he's not here", not taking a message are all things that can bring you to the attention of the chief pilot. And we all know the secret to a successful airline career is when somebody mentions your name to the chief pilot you want them to go "who??"

Really - it's MUCH easier not to answer the phone.....
 
At USAir, they went through 130+ guys to get the 50 slots open on the last recall. Some had retired, couple had died, but most had found better jobs.

Speaking of the word furlough, who have you known of who has been furloughed the most? I know somebody who has been furloughed FOUR times from the same company... US Airways. That has to be a record...
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Have fun with them! Use your Crank Yankers knowledge!!!


You can play the "line was dead to begin with" trick, right?


You: "Hello?"

Them: "This is crew sked calling for F/O Doug Taylor."

You: "Hello?"

Them: "Yes, hi, this is crew sked calling for F/O Doug Taylor."

You: "HELLO?"

[then hang up]


seems innocent enough?
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i think the last people you want to play with are crew scheduling... this isn't like a 9-5 job where we don't have to work on our days off/time off... it's much different from our type of day jobs!
 
Kristie said:
i think the last people you want to play with are crew scheduling... this isn't like a 9-5 job where we don't have to work on our days off/time off... it's much different from our type of day jobs!
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That's very true, good point !



Although if I ever get Flloyd from India as my crew scheduler, I'm gonna give a piece of my mind.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Why is that a big deal? On your day off, say you do pick up the phone and say "Hello?"


And they say back, " First Officer Taylor?"


Then just be like, " He's not here right now, can I take a message?"

Or, " He went out with some friends to a bar, can I take a message? " [assuming day off to begin with].


Can't you screw around with crew sked, just like they like to screw with your sked?
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Because that would be lying.

Kids these days!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Say you're on your first of 4 days off.


Now they call you, on that first day off. You can pretty much deduce that they're gonna junior assign you to a flight on your day off (on your next three days off).

So if you pick up the phone, can't you pretend you're not the pilot?

Just be like, "Ohh you mean my brother? Yeah, he's out with some friends at a bar..."


I mean, crew sked won't tell the pilot's brother about the new junior assigned flights, and say, go tell you brohter this...


Will they?
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Depends.

But if they make contact with you, you're going on a trip unless you're physically unable to do so. I mean you can lie if you'd like, but if you get busted, you're fired.
 
MQAAord said:
Possibly a survery of furloughed members.

If asked, there's no way I'd go back right now. So here's one furloughee who's in the 'no thanks' category!
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I think you're in the same boat as my friend who has turned down her recall at UAL. She's a new mom and she said, ah, hell, I'm in no hurry to go back. So she's going to turn down all the recalls she can and she'll decide whether she wants back in when she has to. She very well may never fly an airplane again.
 
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