Funny Jumpseat story.......

Velocipede said:
...his behavior was rewarded by a "lecture" instead of a consequence...missing his trip.
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Not necessarily.

It seems as though you equate "consequence" with a concrete action that happens to somebody. What about that sinking feeling in one's gut, that, "Oh crap, I really screwed up this time," feeling that makes you never want to do something again?

I've learned a lot of lessons that way in life. One time a good friend overheard me gossiping about him behind his back and he confronted me on it. I felt horrible and sincerely apologized. Ever since then I've watched my tongue a lot more closely. I learned my lesson from a *feeling* and not an *action*.

Would the lesson to stop gossiping have been better taught if my friend had quit talking to me? Or maybe told me I wasn't welcome in his apartment anymore? I doubt it. Those things would have been overkill and wouldn't have taught me anything new.

The same thing could be said for technical issues. You ever had a time in flying when you thought to yourself, "Oh crap, this is it...I completely %#*$%# up this time," only to somehow save yourself and come away from the experience a wiser pilot, knowing never to do action XYZ again? I know I have. But using your philosophy, it sounds as though somebody has to bend metal or lose life in order to suffer a "consequence." I simply don't believe life works that way.

Kudos to Calcapt's actions.
 
Christ guys. . .really now.

It's really simple.

Two schools of thought.

Neither is incorrect, and in the end, both are able to yield the same results.
 
If the dick XJT captain was kicked off by CalCapt, he may have had time to list for a pass and get on the flight anyway, for a nominal fee. A lot of commuters list for both a pass and jumpseat seperately anyway. Gate agents hate it :) .

I think the best thing to do was make him feel like an ass, while still letting him on.
 
I had a captain tell me a jumpseating story that was even more uncool than this one. He was going home on a mainline flight in the early afternoon and had stowed all his stuff onboard a couple minutes before departure time with all the passengers boarded. The gate agent comes down right after him with the paperwork, hands it to the captain, and steps back onto the jetbridge to begin pulling it back. Just then an online pilot comes rushing down and says she has a jumpseat card for the flight(which she had obtained from a different counter). Since the gate agent had closed the flight and the door up at the terminal, the woman had used her SIDA badge to get access the airplane literally right before the jetbridge was to be pulled back. The captain of the flight kicked my captain off the flight and let her on.

It seems to me that using your SIDA badge to get on an already closed flight is not only unethical but against some sort of regulation.
 
Velocipede said:
I'll tell you what I would have done. CalCapt is a nice guy...too nice. What he did is called enabling. Because, I guarantee you the next time the initial circumstances are repeated, the Xjet jerk will do exactly the same thing. He'll take the jumpseat and the offline guy will be left holding the bag.

I would have told him the story and then invited him to pound sand. Toughlove, you might call it. But, CalCapt got the guy to nod his head, act contrite and still got the ride to work. In other words, he paid no penance for his bad behavior.

If CalCapt would have denied him, then he would have learned his lesson. The only lesson this jerk learned is that CalCapt can be abused and won't retaliate.

That's what I've learned about pilots in general. They are very non-confrontational.

I applaud CalCapt for his maganimaty. However, just as with dogs and kids, sometimes they learn better from suffering the consequences of their bad actions/judgment. I reiterate, if this bonehead had missed his trip, he would have learned a WHOLE lot more about jumpseat courtesy.
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This guy did not need punishment, he needed discipline. The root of discipline is disciple, which means student. You teach students , you don't punish them.

If this guy did learn his lesson, then no harm done and everyone goes on his way. If he did not learn his lesson, then one day it will come back to bite him hard. Then he will learn.
 
jtrain609 said:
Accuse all you want, I'm a pretty progressive person :)
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Completely off topic: How is the political scene looking for you this Fall? Still Obama?

On topic: Teaching and learning moments come every day in large and small packages. The effectiveness of the teacher is directly proportional to the receptiveness of the student. Wanting to learn has more to do with learning than anything else. Hopefully there was some receptivity to learning in this situation.
 
Toria said:
Completely off topic: How is the political scene looking for you this Fall? Still Obama?

On topic: Teaching and learning moments come every day in large and small packages. The effectiveness of the teacher is directly proportional to the receptiveness of the student. Wanting to learn has more to do with learning than anything else. Hopefully there was some receptivity to learning in this situation.
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Very much so. He's a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned. I can't get behind Hilliary, Rudy or McCain because I think they're all megalomaniacs that are interested in doing nothing more than feeding their own ego's. I'll be voting for Obama, but I like Edwards and Richardson also. Thompson hasn't convinced me he's a giant sack of crap yet, though there's still time! :)

Oh and I don't think Ron Paul is a real piece of crap either, I find myself voting libertarian a lot when there isn't a green party candidate.
 
jtrain609 said:
I can't get behind Hilliary, Rudy or McCain because I think they're all megalomaniacs that are interested in doing nothing more than feeding their own ego's. I'll be voting for Obama, but I like Edwards and Richardson also. Thompson hasn't convinced me he's a giant sack of crap yet, though there's still time! :)

Oh and I don't think Ron Paul is a real piece of crap either, I find myself voting libertarian a lot when there isn't a green party candidate.
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:yeahthat:

Wow, someone who I agree with completely! That is SO rare!
 
jrh said:
Not necessarily.

It seems as though you equate "consequence" with a concrete action that happens to somebody. What about that sinking feeling in one's gut, that, "Oh crap, I really screwed up this time," feeling that makes you never want to do something again?

I've learned a lot of lessons that way in life. One time a good friend overheard me gossiping about him behind his back and he confronted me on it. I felt horrible and sincerely apologized. Ever since then I've watched my tongue a lot more closely. I learned my lesson from a *feeling* and not an *action*.
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You know, at first I was agreeing with Velocipede on this one, but your post seems to make the most sense to me. The guy probably learned his lesson just as well from that "sinking feeling" that you refer to as he would from being actually tossed off the plane. The main problem with actually tossing him off is that he'll probably just get pissed off and start a jumpseat war of his own. All mainline pilots would probably feel this guy's wrath just so he could "get back" at someone because of what was done to him.
 
Unfortunately, todays generation of IPOD-slamming regional pilots would not have learned anything from that confrontation.

Here's what you should have done:

1. Denied him the jumpseat.

2. Grabbed his Ipod, and then link-uploaded Justin Timberlake's "What Goes Around" song.

3. Then played that chorus at the end, "What goes around, comes back around! I thought I told ya, hey!"



[Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrbkZOST6qc From the 1:00 to 1:25 mark]




Now THAT would have gotten the attention of todays IPOD-slammin' regional pilot!



:D
 
Alright alright, I've thought of something - and thats dangerous. Beware. I warned you. :)


While I think calcapt did the right thing, I think it depended on the guys reaction to calcapt speaking with him.

When I did Law Enforcement, you learned alot about reading people and their body language, voice tone etc. If the guy appeared to be really sorry, and I could see that he realized he made a mistake, then I'd let him on. If he just gave that typical • look like "Yeah...I'm sorry, but not really. Let me on." , then I'd definitely wouldn't let him on. It would depend on how the guy acted.

Thats my thought!
 
An interesting thing about people, is that they have an ability to learn & change. While it is possible that the guy was just pretending to be sorry and couldn't give a hoot less and will continue to treat people the same way, it's also possible that CalCapt's actions & words had a real effect on the guy, and made him stop and think.
 
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