:chair: The question is can you use flaps in a PA28/151 while performing forward slips. I know it is not allowed in a C-172 but how about a Warrior. I find nothing in the POH saying it is not allowed. During a check ride last week the examiner was upset when the applicant used flaps for the maneuver. :beer:
Foward Slip
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Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Who says it is not allowed in the 172? (Here we go again). If the DE got upset at the applicant using flaps and a slip ask for a reference.
POH only recommends not to. For some reason people still think that things outside of section 2 in the POH are mandatory.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
POH only recommends not to. For some reason people still think that things outside of section 2 in the POH are mandatory.
I know. That was my point.
z987k
Well-Known Member
you can definitely slip a pa28 with flaps. I have no idea why you couldn't or where it says you can't.
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
Yep, can-&-may forward slip with flaps in a P28A.
Early on during pattern work I was taught how to use slips to get to an aiming point. After a while, I was discouraged from using that technique with the reasoning that, if I'm having to regularly use a slip, I'm doing something else wrong with the approach (conversely, I was also encouraged to begin descending abeam the numbers or the arrival end in the pattern at a near-idle power setting when possible). We had a nice, regular paved runway with lots of room and generally non-goofus traffic.
Possibly the need to slip was the focal point of the examiner's general assessment of how the approach was being managed for the given conditions. :dunno:
Early on during pattern work I was taught how to use slips to get to an aiming point. After a while, I was discouraged from using that technique with the reasoning that, if I'm having to regularly use a slip, I'm doing something else wrong with the approach (conversely, I was also encouraged to begin descending abeam the numbers or the arrival end in the pattern at a near-idle power setting when possible). We had a nice, regular paved runway with lots of room and generally non-goofus traffic.
Possibly the need to slip was the focal point of the examiner's general assessment of how the approach was being managed for the given conditions. :dunno:
:bandit: I know.
What I can't figure out is why anyone would ever need to slip in an arrow. The thing already glides like a rock.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Agree
... if you needed to slip an aircraft that has flaps on a checkride...something went wrong.
nosehair
Well-Known Member
If this was a power off 180, or simulated forced landing, I count on using slips and flaps. It is a guarantee that you will reach your aiming point, no matter what surprises come up on the approach.
Come in high, use the slip to get into the right approach angle until you are 100% assured of reaching your point, then apply flaps as needed.
Sometimes, you will need to apply flaps and continue slipping to get down, but if you use flaps just a few seconds too early, you will be a few feet short. That can't happen with the slipping technique.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
On my CFI checkride, the Inspector made me pull power & turn base at the numbers and leave the gear up until I had the runway made- which was turning base to final. I was way too high and put in full flaps. Still way too high. "So, fix it" said the Inspector. Only one way to do it: full left aileron and full right rudder. Took only a few seconds to get on glide path.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
The placard says "avoid", :chair: (nasty words edited
)I would say you're right, for a normal landing with non-goofy things happening. Power-off accuracy 180's, short approaches and so on are quite another matter - in my opinion, at least. I'd rather *have* to slip on final - the spot is made, it's an issue of finessing it on down.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
"Your mileage will vary" comes to mind. Lack of standards much - I'm wondering what various DPEs think.
subpilot
Squawking 7600
I guess we can't all be super pilots. :dunno:
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Pilots (not just commercial, but private as well), should be taught landings in all scenarios, with flaps+slip and without. If forced to put an airplane down on a specific spot without engine power a private pilot should be able to do so using all the tools available. I'd rather see the pilot come in steep and need a slip+flaps to land verses just barely making it in with just flaps.
:clap: Ok so I guess we all agree their is no restrictions slipping a Pa28-151 "Warrior"with full flaps.
When I mentioned slipping a C-172 "F" model was prohibted that is because the POH in my hand reads "slips are PROHBITED in full flap approaches because of douwnward pitch encountered under certain combinations of airspeed and sideslip angle". Perhapes the later models had a design change to remove this problem.
When I mentioned slipping a C-172 "F" model was prohibted that is because the POH in my hand reads "slips are PROHBITED in full flap approaches because of douwnward pitch encountered under certain combinations of airspeed and sideslip angle". Perhapes the later models had a design change to remove this problem.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
If I recall correctly, at certain combinations of flap setting (especially at 40) and airspeeds the elevators/horizontal stab can be aerodynamically blanked out, resulting in the nose dropping. No flaps 40 on the new airplanes = no problem. (I'm not sure on this one, but this is indeed an explanation I've heard.)
I notice different elevator 'feel' when I have the flaps at 30 and a typical approach speed (65 knots) - I can feel some roughness there where I don't have it with flaps retracted and normal cruise speed. A completely uneducated guess is that this feel is the leftovers from the aforementioned flap blanking speed.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Fair enough... I can see your point about knowing how to use every trick in the bag for any given circumstance. That makes sense.
It's not a matter of being super pilot... just that I watch everyday as students set up a 2 mile pattern... carry way too much power end up high...and then as a last ditch effort try to save the approach by slipping it in... when there just really isn't a need for it... what is ironic is that many CFIs talk of how a wider pattern allows their students to set up a "stabilized" approach...but yet, they somehow find the need to slip it. Abeam the numbers, a student should be able to evaluate if they will be on speed and at the right altitude/distance from the runway as well as the "ground ref" portion of understanding how the winds are affecting them.
IMHO - I believe that forward slips are used way too much to cover up poor technique... which could occur on a checkride as the OP mentioned.
But.... having said that you all do make a fine case that teaching slips are part of a "what you can do in case" type of thing that should, indeed, be taught... but perhaps not relied on as a fix all.