Former astronaut: Man not alone in universe

ppragman said:
The idea of aliens being here is the ridiculous part. If they were here, we'd know it. More powerful cultures in human history (and if they've gotten technology and decided to explore out into the universe then their history is probably similar to ours) tend to destroy less powerful ones. Pre-columbian societies, the Mori-Oris, the Khoisan by the Bantu, potentially even neanderthals, all destroyed by cultures with better guns/germs/steel. Think, why does the white man have all the cargo? You can bet that if they're here, they've got better cargo.
Click to expand...

What if Earth was populated by aliens and now we are like a life sized ant farm to them? Hmmm......:p
 
Snoopy2 said:
Ask any military folk with high end security clearance who've served at Wright-Patterson in Ohio or McDill in Tampa about recovered alien aircraft and preserved alien bodies.
The US government doesn't come clean because the US government is trying to figure out the technology before anyone else does.
Much easier said than done!! It's a task comparable to handing the founding fathers a computer and having them with their 1700's knowledge trying to figure out how it works.
How other worldly technology functions is THE mystery and it's what some of our brightest scientific minds have been trying to figure out for decades. Only a closed minded fool would deny the overwhelming evidence of ongoing extra-terrestrial visitation to this planet.
Btw, Mitchell is not alone within the astronaut corp with his belief about extra-terrestrials. He's just the most outspoken about it.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty open minded, I just can't get past the whole "physics" thing that constrains motion through space-time at high percents of c. Until we move a macroscopic object faster than light, or actually build a wormhole I'll remain pretty sceptical. Fermi's paradox, if they were here, we'd know. Hell, the light from their engines would be brighter than the sun, we'd be able to see it with our naked eye. Unless they have a magical warp drive.:rolleyes:
 
I agree with ppragman, btw. In the insanely unlikely event that we were Visited, we'd be eaten shortly thereafter. But I think this detracts from the larger point, which is that by any semblance of a sane, scientific reading of the question, there is for all intents and purposes zero possibility of us ever "contacting" (or contracting, more likely) alien life. The shackles of Relativity certainly appear by all accounts to apply to little green men, too. Sorry, nerds. You're stuck with us. Now get a job. ;)
 
Boris Badenov said:
I agree with ppragman, btw. In the insanely unlikely event that we were Visited, we'd be eaten shortly thereafter. But I think this detracts from the larger point, which is that by any semblance of a sane, scientific reading of the question, there is for all intents and purposes zero possibility of us ever "contacting" (or contracting, more likely) alien life. The shackles of Relativity certainly appear by all accounts to apply to little green men, too. Sorry, nerds. You're stuck with us. Now get a job. ;)
Click to expand...

But who can say for sure that we would never be visited. Most people think in todays technology and todays understanding of physics and space-time. Look at the incredible technology jump from 1900 - 2000. Who knows what a civilization given thousands of years headstart would be able to accomplish?
 
I had this conversation with a friend recently and we both came to the conclusion that the human race has progressed unusually fast in technology over the past 20 years compared to some of the more ancient civilizations that ruled for hundreds of years.
 
ambass.jpg
 
pullup said:
But who can say for sure that we would never be visited. Most people think in todays technology and todays understanding of physics and space-time. Look at the incredible technology jump from 1900 - 2000. Who knows what a civilization given thousands of years headstart would be able to accomplish?
Click to expand...

Well, sure. And maybe the sky will be red tomorrow. There's really no way of "knowing", in the sense that you mean it. That said, we're "hampered" by our understanding of how things work. If Einstein (and Bohr, et al) was even remotely right about how stuff works, the likelihood of shaking tentacles with the Moononites is probably less than that of waking up to red skies, peace on earth, or jewish sports legends.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Well, sure. And maybe the sky will be red tomorrow. There's really no way of "knowing", in the sense that you mean it. That said, we're "hampered" by our understanding of how things work. If Einstein (and Bohr, et al) was even remotely right about how stuff works, the likelihood of shaking tentacles with the Moononites is probably less than that of waking up to red skies, peace on earth, or jewish sports legends.
Click to expand...

I continue to be amazed at what the human mind and body alone can achieve, so it is not a stretch for me to believe there is almost limitless potential. What are your thoughts about wormholes? Wormholes do not violate general relativity and if something were to pass through a wormhole it would be locally slower then the speed of light. Eh, I should stop talking before being labeled a kook, but this topic really excites me and there are so many options (parallel universes, 10th dimensions, etc) that we really don't have the first clue as to how the universe really works.
 
pullup said:
But who can say for sure that we would never be visited. Most people think in todays technology and todays understanding of physics and space-time. Look at the incredible technology jump from 1900 - 2000. Who knows what a civilization given thousands of years headstart would be able to accomplish?
Click to expand...

Nobody can, but if they show up, we'll know it. Plus, most of human history has been fairly stagnant technologically, there's nothing to indicate (unless you think Ray Kurzwell is the main man) that we'll continue to accelerate at this pace technologically indefinitely. Higher populations, and population densities, as well as the internet will certainly increase the rate of development, but I remain skeptical about what we truly can do with the universe, even given a long time to tinker with it. Then, who's to say we're not the first intelligent race while we're speculating?
 
Snoopy2 said:
Btw, Mitchell is not alone within the astronaut corp with his belief about extra-terrestrials. He's just the most outspoken about it.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I was mostly making a cheap dig at news stories about padlocks on the shuttle hatch and diapered-up road trips (which, admittedly, would be quite practical were it not for our Victorian sensibilities).

I was trying to remember which of the astronauts founded the Institute for Noetic Sciences. Turns out that, too, is Edgar Mitchell. The whole thing sounds like Philip Dick's Valis with the living knowledge and beams of information. So it's not overly surprising that, of all the US astronauts, he would be the most likely to embrace that we are regularly visited by aliens in spacecraft.

I'm no UFO buff :). Roswell is a very small town that happened to be home to a famous astronaut. I would bet there are a couple of small towns around the world with their own alien crash stories. Is the Roswell crash especially famous because of its own "merit" or because Edgar Mitchell heard stories as a kid?
 
ppragman said:
Nobody can, but if they show up, we'll know it. Plus, most of human history has been fairly stagnant technologically, there's nothing to indicate (unless you think Ray Kurzwell is the main man) that we'll continue to accelerate at this pace technologically indefinitely. Higher populations, and population densities, as well as the internet will certainly increase the rate of development, but I remain skeptical about what we truly can do with the universe, even given a long time to tinker with it. Then, who's to say we're not the first intelligent race while we're speculating?
Click to expand...


How will we know if the have come? If they have the technology to traverse the universe they should sure as hell have the technology to "hide". Technology doesn't have to continue at an exponential rate, just given enough time it will achieve, previously thought, unattainable levels.

Humans FTW!!!
 
pullup said:
How will we know if the have come? If they have the technology to traverse the universe they should sure as hell have the technology to "hide". Technology doesn't have to continue at an exponential rate, just given enough time it will achieve, previously thought, unattainable levels.

Humans FTW!!!
Click to expand...

We have the technology to hide (e.g. radar, visible light, etc) giant sea-going freighters and even scientific ships, but why bother? Its too expensive. Plus, energy is conserved, that heat, light, mass, will have an effect on us, and we will be able to see it. Something moving at close to c, will put off some pretty wicked light from its motors, or just from its hull impacting free hydrogen between the stars. Even if you had a "deflector shield" or something else scientifically-magical, the acceleration of those bits of dust and hydrogen would cause them to heat up and glow. If interstellar travel was as common as you're saying we'd see ships at night that went on their course 500years ago. Hell, if they're 50,000years ahead of us in development, we'd see where their more primitive (their less stealthy tech) drive's light careening about the cosmos on trade missions or mission trips from age immemorial. If they're out there, we're separated too far in time or space, or they're at the same level of technology (e.g. not really space fairing, and their radio signals still haven't gotten to us) or we're the first.
 
ppragman said:
We have the technology to hide (e.g. radar, visible light, etc) giant sea-going freighters and even scientific ships, but why bother? Its too expensive. Plus, energy is conserved, that heat, light, mass, will have an effect on us, and we will be able to see it. Something moving at close to c, will put off some pretty wicked light from its motors, or just from its hull impacting free hydrogen between the stars. Even if you had a "deflector shield" or something else scientifically-magical, the acceleration of those bits of dust and hydrogen would cause them to heat up and glow. If interstellar travel was as common as you're saying we'd see ships at night that went on their course 500years ago. Hell, if they're 50,000years ahead of us in development, we'd see where their more primitive (their less stealthy tech) drive's light careening about the cosmos on trade missions or mission trips from age immemorial. If they're out there, we're separated too far in time or space, or they're at the same level of technology (e.g. not really space fairing, and their radio signals still haven't gotten to us) or we're the first.
Click to expand...


I smell what you're cooking, but I would hazard a guess that says that their early travels wouldn't be too far from the mother planet, thus we would not see their early expeditions. I still have trouble either agreeing or disagreeing with what people say because I keep thinking about technological improvements. Humans are always looking for a better way, a faster way, a more efficient way. I can't help but think that somewhere along the line we harness almost limitless energy and leanr to "be one" with the universe. You have very valid points but I guess I am going with the unknown factor on this one. :o
 
ppragman said:
I doubt that its that much of a possibility. I don't claim to have any knowledge about what they think or how their culture works, but I'll tell you what, natural selection tends to weed out the less than peaceful cultures over the years.
Click to expand...

Sure...under certain circumstances. If we switched to world peace tomorrow, the human race would still be on top of the game on this planet. It's not like we're gonna roll over and let wolves, tigers and bears suddenly become the dominant species b/c we stopped killing them. If anything, we're more likely to wipe OURSELVES out at this current pace. It's possible an advanced technological race would have realized that before doing so.

Those that are peaceful probably aren't going to be out galavanting around with a damn good reason.
Click to expand...

Population density on earth along with our outstripping of resources might force us to "galavant" around looking for more places to leave or resources.


I think to that to truly believe that ET out there is all that different from us (other than anatomically) is a disservice to evolution, and to ET. [/quote]

Unless ET has been around a lot longer than human life. What would the earth be like without the mass extinctions of the past re-booting evolution a few times?

Races without that aren't going to leave their back yard.
Click to expand...

Nah, there are reasons, including the ones I already mentioned. Cataclysmic natural disaster being another. Even a peaceful culture will head out if they think an asteroid is gonna wipe out their entire civilization. They might not WANT to leave their back yard, but there are reasons that may force them to do so.
 
There are those that say that we weren't to have had the technology of fiber optics for a good some time now, at the rate our technology was going.......

...unless we got it from somewhere.....:eek:
 
This is the sort of thread that makes me certain that I'm an alien from a considerably more advanced civilization. Perversely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top