Forbes Article on Regional Pilot Pay vs McDonalds Pay

[zmiller4]

It sucked, don't get me wrong and I was angry enough to pull the trigger on leaving the industry.

Until I put about a year into that one and realized how bad THAT option sucked.

I also know at least 5 other guys who did the same thing as me and also came screaming back to the "terrible regional airlines."

That should tell you something.

This, this, and this.

The discontent I saw during my time in the airlines was largely from two groups: FO's or junior captains who usually had no experience in a non-flying careers, or major pilots whose expectations had been raised by the better days of airline flying and were discontented with the current state of the industry. Like Jtrain, I was angry/unhappy/bitter enough to quit, but if you get out of the airline bubble and into the real world, you'll find that jobs that top out close to six figures [regional] with the lifestyle you're afforded are rare. Even most entry-level jobs in my field (outside of the oil/gas industry; geology/hydrology) are ~5th year FO pay for most regionals, and that's with a master's. Professors at my university top out around the same salary as a regional captain--and that's with years of hard work, publishing constantly, and being (literally) close to the top of your field. My cousin is an attorney who got a really good job in the bay area that must have paid a huge amount, but the schedule and workload were *attrocious*.

I realize first year pay sucks, but I've done it twice and will likely do it again--thist time with a wife and child--because the long-term outlook is more attractive to me than the alternatives.

 

[WacoFan]

If kids just graduating are unable to afford their federal loan payments on any salary under the new pay are you earn criteria, well, you couldn't afford to eat anyway.

What do you attribute the high unemployment rate of recent college grads to? I know there are multiple issues at work, but what is your leaning? Is college not preparing kids as it used to? Are too many kids majoring in unmarketable things? is it simply the incredibly tough job market? Combination of all these things and more for sure - what do you think the biggest issue is in terms of priority?

 

[jmreii]

What do you attribute the high unemployment rate of recent college grads to? I know there are multiple issues at work, but what is your leaning? Is college not preparing kids as it used to? Are too many kids majoring in unmarketable things? is it simply the incredibly tough job market? Combination of all these things and more for sure - what do you think the biggest issue is in terms of priority?

All of the above and too little (STEM) science, technology, engineering, and math.

 

[ChasenSFO]

What do you attribute the high unemployment rate of recent college grads to? I know there are multiple issues at work, but what is your leaning? Is college not preparing kids as it used to? Are too many kids majoring in unmarketable things? is it simply the incredibly tough job market? Combination of all these things and more for sure - what do you think the biggest issue is in terms of priority?

Looking at my friends who being mostly 21-25 are mainly recent college grads, I notice tons of them are stuck with jobs that require no degree at all. Seems like the vast majority of them had nothing more than a basic "idea" of what they want to do career wise, if even that, and now have a degree that they have no idea what to do with. With no work history and no special skills outside the degree, it seems only my friends who went with engineering degrees found work that pays well.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

What do you attribute the high unemployment rate of recent college grads to? I know there are multiple issues at work, but what is your leaning? Is college not preparing kids as it used to? Are too many kids majoring in unmarketable things? is it simply the incredibly tough job market? Combination of all these things and more for sure - what do you think the biggest issue is in terms of priority?

Increased productivity, which is a fancy way of saying running your current motor oil for another 3,000 miles.

 

[Dugie8]

What do you attribute the high unemployment rate of recent college grads to? I know there are multiple issues at work, but what is your leaning? Is college not preparing kids as it used to? Are too many kids majoring in unmarketable things? is it simply the incredibly tough job market? Combination of all these things and more for sure - what do you think the biggest issue is in terms of priority?

Biggest issue in terms of priority? The current "crop" of graduates has some comination, in more or less mixture ratios, of worthless degrees (a degree that doesn't teach you how to produce or help in the production of goods/services) and an entitlement mentallity that has kids believing, wrather fiercely, that they are owed executive level compensation and perks just for graduating college.

Tie this in with a job market that is demanding nearly decades of experience for near entry level wages and benefits and you have a perfect storm.

 

[desertdog71]

Biggest issue in terms of priority? The current "crop" of graduates has some comination, in more or less mixture ratios, of worthless degrees (a degree that doesn't teach you how to produce or help in the production of goods/services) and an entitlement mentallity that has kids believing, wrather fiercely, that they are owed executive level compensation and perks just for graduating college.

Tie this in with a job market that is demanding nearly decades of experience for near entry level wages and benefits and you have a perfect storm.

Useless degrees in fields that produce nothing.

Society that promotes getting buried in debt before you've worked a day. Getting into debt is easy. Consuming is easy. Producing is hard. Producing stuff people are willing to pay for is even harder.

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[Dugie8]

Some of these "degrees" are nothing but wall decorations for managers to justify their position. I have a BS in Engineering and Aeronautics and a Master's in I.T. Aeronautics is the only one prepared me to do a "real" job. Engineering and IT just gave me enough knowledge to sound smart but no "experience". Hell, almost all the math I would ever use as an engineer was in 2 or 3 books with tables full of solutions to equations, ie strength of materials, life limits, etc. IT was just a study in using big words and shrinking them down to 3 and 4 letter abbreviations, LAN, WAN, CAT6e, UTP, yourmomma.

I thought about going back to school for a Master's in Infomatics. Basically a blending of management and healthcare technology design and the implementation and use of said tech. Looking at the UofM in MSP and UAB in BHM the classes are a joke. They are all things I have done either with my engineering schooling, IT schooling and especially with aviation (risk management, resourece management, etc). No reason to plunk down another 50k for something I already know how to do. Do HR gremlins see that? Nope, they want the 50k piece of paper.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Useless degrees in fields that produce nothing.

What is your degree in?

 

[GypsyPilot]

Dugie8,

Great post. Reminds me of the PMP certs my project managers all had to get. What a freaking racket.

 

[🦈💜]

entitlement mentallity that has kids believing, wrather fiercely, that they are owed executive level compensation and perks just for graduating college.

That's largely because that's what they've been sold by the higher education industry.

Sure, they could do their due diligence ... but based on what? We TEACH THEM WHAT TO DO. We teach them to trust the system, we teach them that if they go to college, and work hard, and get good grades, that they'll be able to achieve their dreams.

We teach them • from their very first memories, through all of their formative years, and then when they finally come out of college and go 'omgwtf', we call them 'entitled' and say 'Why didn't they do their research?'

We're preparing the youth for a reality that doesn't actually exists—but it sure sells well! Just like the pup^H^H^Hpilot mills.

~Fox

 

[Autothrust Blue]

That's largely because that's what they've been sold by the higher education industry.

Sure, they could do their due diligence ... but based on what? We TEACH THEM WHAT TO DO. We teach them to trust the system, we teach them that if they go to college, and work hard, and get good grades, that they'll be able to achieve their dreams.

There is something about that, truthfully.

I mean, you tell someone to do X and get Y result, and they're going to do it if you do so from a position of authority - and just about everyone my age (e.g. anyone who's a model year 1987-1988) has been told by parents, teachers, and on down the line, from very early on "go to college and your economic security is safe."

The other, non-economic positive outcomes of education aside, I do think that the 'industry' as a whole is ripping off current students and the families of students.

We're preparing the youth for a reality that doesn't actually exists—but it sure sells well! Just like the pup^H^H^Hpilot mills.

Most people around here probably don't know what ^H means

 

[desertdog71]

What is your degree in?

Never spent one dime or one minute on college.

I did something crazy. I worked, created businesses, made money, invested, paid cash for flight training. When economy went bad and no flying work....I started another business, saved and now I'm back for another go in aviation.

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[CoffeeIcePapers]

Never spent one dime or one minute on college.

I did something crazy. I worked, created businesses, made money, invested, paid cash for flight training. When economy went bad and no flying work....I started another business, saved and now I'm back for another go in aviation.

Pretty easy to rant about how useless a college degree is when you haven't stepped foot on a campus, right? Are your plans to stay in 121? If so, you better start working on that useless degree. Good luck paying for it without going into debt, given what regional salaries are.

I never took out a loan for my degree or flight training. I have never been unemployed for over a month since I was 14 years old. You seem to imply that everyone who has a college degree is some weed smoking slacker who lived on microwave burritos and played hacky sack down at the quad daily.

 

[desertdog71]

Pretty easy to rant about how useless a college degree is when you haven't stepped foot on a campus, right? Are your plans to stay in 121? If so, you better start working on that useless degree. Good luck paying for it without going into debt, given what regional salaries are.

I never took out a loan for my degree or flight training. I have never been unemployed for over a month since I was 14 years old. You seem to imply that everyone who has a college degree is some weed smoking slacker who lived on microwave burritos and played hacky sack down at the quad daily.

I seem to imply lots of things. You know damn well many degrees are useless and many have been sold the BS about get a degree and everything will be grand. Well it doesn't work that way and luckily I didn't buy what they were selling. My kids also benefit because I don't feed them that line either.



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[desertdog71]

See what you did there? Took "useless degrees" turned that into "all college degrees are useless"

I'm one hell if a piss poor communicator because things always seem to get received in a way contrary to how its delivered.

Guess internet forums is not my best medium to use.

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[ChasenSFO]

You seem to imply that everyone who has a college degree is some weed smoking slacker who lived on microwave burritos and played hacky sack down at the quad daily.

Of course not. That's all part of EARNING the degree.

 

[Dugie8]

There is nothing wrong with going to college and earning a degree in Basket Weaving, if that is your passion. College level education shouldn't be all about getting a piece of paper so you can earn the maximum amount of money... What's the point? Go learn something you are into and enjoy. The important part being, LEARN (the aviation definition of learning). If a time machine was invented tomorrow I would go back to school for coaching/sports performance and have my athletes standing on Olympic podiums.

Acrofox has it correct. "We" don't encourage free thinking anymore. If you dare to step outside the box you are labeled "anti authority" or "ADHD" or any other buzz word to shame you back into line. Higher education has become a gold sink. Relatively high amounts of effort put in, for little in return. By return I mean the actually skills and knowledge to do the job or trade you went to college for. Exceptions to that exist.

Right or wrong, many "big" aviation jobs will require a degree. Not because the possession of said degree make the possessor a better pilot or better employee, it simply weeds down the resume stack. I've never met anyone who can fly an airplane better than me. Meaning, if I fly it on profile, how the boss wants it flown, the guy with more degrees or more hours won't fly the airplane any better. The ins and outs of our job (flying) is learned whilst doing the job. If you don't want a degree or don't feel it is worth your time/money, so be it. BUUUUT be prepared to accept the consequences that exist because of that. No amount of anecdotal evidence can change "facts". If I was king, all interviews would be held over a steak dinner and adult beverages of your choice.

 

[derg]

I couldn't get the job I have without a degree.

Personally, I needed one. I don't have a pedigree and largely, I figured the more I made my self the "obviously qualified" candidate, the harder it would be for people to overlook me.

Now if you're a Kennedy, sure. If you're some kid from a dusty old California hick town, you'd better be shiny.

 

[Bumblebee]

I have a degree now thanks to the advice given here (Derg). I got it so I would be qualified to work at Delta, or anyplace that screens for a 4 years degree. So glad I did it for many reasons other than just the paper. I'm a far better writer, I have a lot more knowledge on a wide variety of subjects and I have a confidence I didn't have before. Matter of fact, I impressed a man for a job opportunity I really want because I have the degree and he recognized the Magna Cum Laude. The quote was, "You're exactly what we need here." My flight experience along with the degree turned his head. Get the degree...you'll be thankful later.