Forbes Article on Regional Pilot Pay vs McDonalds Pay

cmill said:
Ok, just so I can be clear:

It's possible to get a decent job in this industry without selling yourself short. I've been gainfully employed as a pilot for the past six years, and I don't recall any of them spent at a regional for 20k.

All I've said is that if you go to the regionals for that money, then you're lowering the bar. I never did that, so please point out my hypocrisy. Also, seeing as how I'm currently flying, I don't think I'm sitting on the sidelines. I fly around clapped out piston engine float planes for a living. I would hardly say that I've hit the "big time" by anyone's definition.

The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of people on this very board that are making decent money without ever having to step foot at a regional. There are plenty of avenues to avoid working for crap rages and furthering the race to the bottom, you choose not to see them though.

So go ahead and take your your ready reserve, your commute, your furlough, your buy-outs, and all that other crap for your pittance of a "wage." After all, you get to wear a suite and call yourself an airline pilot. I'm sure you'll even get on here and start complaining about how sloppily other pilots dress, how they don't act with professionalism or dignity, and how passengers don't respect you, never once realizing that its YOUR fault that all that happened.
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Just something to consider: The people who have done their time in the regionals and have moved on have much higher career earnings expectations than someone flying piston equipment. Don't just look at the first year or two of a 121 career.
 
Bumblebee said:
I understood your motor oil comment. I just don't think it's a necessary perspective when you consider the value of someone who has gone above and beyond based on your representations that they would get to share in the success, and then not do it. I think that is unethical...true that it is the way it is, but it is still a lying thief that pulls that sort of thing.

( I understood that you considered your employees to have no more value than motor oil and f you could replace them for a dime cheaper you would.)

but...
this wasn't referring to the motor oil...it was referring to the engine using motor oil...talk about comprehension FAIL!

I was just trying to make a funny not a direct comparison...I'll simple it down for you next time.

LOL Can you understand the words that are spewing from my keyboard?
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You'll simple it down for me? Your comment in parenthesis completely destroys your idea of comprehension - that wasn't the point of my motor oil comment at all. But yeah, keep it simple for my sake bee...
 
WacoFan said:
You'll simple it down for me? Your comment in parenthesis completely destroys your idea of comprehension - that wasn't the point of my motor oil comment at all. But yeah, keep it simple for my sake bee...
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hey, since I obviously am a simpleton please, simple it down for me. If I missed the point, what I remember is that you used that as an admonition to teach us how management really thought of us worker bees.


Motor oil...go.

Help me understand,
 
desertdog71 said:
Keep trying to twist the facts to make yourself sound good. I'm going to work for the agreed rare that is industry wide. I didn't undercut anyone and I'm not going to sit it out to make you happy.

Your whole analogy is a fallacy because nobody is offering that higher pay. Like I said before, these calls always come from the sidelines or those who already got theirs.

This is the avenue available right now. I'll work to improve it once I'm there but sure not going to sit it out so people on a forum can thump their chests.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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But people are offering higher pay. I made over 70 last year flying light airplanes, and there are other places that pay similarly - and not all of them are in AK. It is possible to make "good" money - even in your first few years of flying.
 
jtrain609 said:
I love it when we have an eight page thread with non-airline pilots talking with other non-airline pilots about how much airlines suck, and how they know because they've never worked at an airline because they all suck.

Logic like this only works on the tubes.
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That's the thing though, I'd love to go to the regionals - and stay! It offers the type of flying I like, with "good" equipment, but I cannot make it for the first couple years on RJ pay with a family. It can't be done with a wife and a kid. I want nothing more than to fly an EMB-170 or a CRJ200 (or hell even a 1900) on short dynamic routes, but I can't do it and feed my family. That's sad.
 
ppragman said:
But people are offering higher pay. I made over 70 last year flying light airplanes, and there are other places that pay similarly - and not all of them are in AK. It is possible to make "good" money - even in your first few years of flying.
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That's cool, but again, I really urge everyone to look at projected career earnings with a logbook full of turbojet time.
 
dasleben said:
That's cool, but I really urge everyone to look at projected career earnings with a logbook full of turbojet time.
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I'd love to, but how do I make my family suffer on the "possibility" of better? If I could go straight to an Atlas, or Delta, or Alaska, or whatever, I would...but I can't without taking the kind of hit to finances that would bankrupt us, or without my son wondering who I am after a shift. I'm pretty happy where I'm at, and I'll do "ok" here for the foreseable future, but let's be serious, if you're not a single male, you're at a disadvantage.
 
ppragman said:
I'd love to, but how do I make my family suffer on the "possibility" of better? If I could go straight to an Atlas, or Delta, or Alaska, or whatever, I would...but I can't without taking the kind of hit to finances that would bankrupt us, or without my son wondering who I am after a shift. I'm pretty happy where I'm at, and I'll do "ok" here for the foreseable future, but let's be serious, if you're not a single male, you're at a disadvantage.
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I can't answer any of that for you, but for those with the ability to stomach it (and are looking for the highest career earnings), I'd strongly advise getting turbojet time than settling down with a piston/turboprop job for ~$70k/year. That's good money for that kind of equipment, but easily surpassable once beyond the regional world.
 
dasleben said:
I can't answer any of that for you, but for those with the ability to stomach it (and are looking for the highest career earnings), I'd strongly advise getting turbojet time than settling down with a piston/turboprop job for ~$70k/year. That's good money for that kind of equipment, but easily surpassable once beyond the regional world.
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It would take some time to be making over 70k at a regional. It may in fact not happen at all if you are unlucky and the furlough fairy strikes at inopportune times. And even a few years of that difference in pay cumulatively is huge. I did the math for myself - if I went to a regional next year, I could swing it, but it wouldn't be fun. But looking into the future is telling, even if I made captain in 4 years, I would be $1.3 million ahead by staying in my current job over the next decade. The 70k piston job comes out half a million dollars ahead using those numbers over 10 years.

Granted, a few years of mainline captain pay could offset that gap. But that happens at the end of one's career, not the beginning. The money now is far more valuable, it is worth more because of inflation, and is worth more because of what it can earn if you invest it. And it is worth a lot if you need it to feed a family.
 
dasleben said:
I can't answer any of that for you, but for those with the ability to stomach it (and are looking for the highest career earnings), I'd strongly advise getting turbojet time than settling down with a piston/turboprop job for ~$70k/year. That's good money for that kind of equipment, but easily surpassable once beyond the regional world.
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Well, nothing says my wages are static either, I fully expect for them to continue to climb every year for the foreseeable future. I mean, you're an Atlas guy (iirc) - I could make it on those wages, but I lose out on over $100k (at least) in order to get there. Until it's at the point where I could go "directly" to my "retirement carrier," there's no way in hell it's possible for me to suck up even a "good regional's" pay for a couple years unless my SO worked full time too (not really possible with a 9 mo old). I'd love to go fly a jet, and before I moved back to Alaska I was offered the opportunity to for a charter company, but couldn't make the money work. The truth is, I can't in good conscience take a jet job that offers no guarantee of schedule, and $45 to $50k when I could make more for my family and be home at night.

One of the fundamental problems with this industry, guys will take the pay hit so that they can get ahead and it drives down wages everywhere.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
It would take some time to be making over 70k at a regional. It may in fact not happen at all if you are unlucky and the furlough fairy strikes at inopportune times. And even a few years of that difference in pay cumulatively is huge. I did the math for myself - if I went to a regional next year, I could swing it, but it wouldn't be fun. But looking into the future is telling, even if I made captain in 4 years, I would be $1.3 million ahead by staying in my current job over the next decade. The 70k piston job comes out half a million dollars ahead using those numbers over 10 years.

Granted, a few years of mainline captain pay could offset that gap. But that happens at the end of one's career, not the beginning. The money now is far more valuable, it is worth more because of inflation, and is worth more because of what it can earn if you invest it. And it is worth a lot if you need it to feed a family.
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ppragman said:
Well, nothing says my wages are static either, I fully expect for them to continue to climb every year for the foreseeable future. I mean, you're an Atlas guy (iirc) - I could make it on those wages, but I lose out on over $100k (at least) in order to get there. Until it's at the point where I could go "directly" to my "retirement carrier," there's no way in hell it's possible for me to suck up even a "good regional's" pay for a couple years unless my SO worked full time too (not really possible with a 9 mo old). I'd love to go fly a jet, and before I moved back to Alaska I was offered the opportunity to for a charter company, but couldn't make the money work. The truth is, I can't in good conscience take a jet job that offers no guarantee of schedule, and $45 to $50k when I could make more for my family and be home at night.

One of the fundamental problems with this industry, guys will take the pay hit so that they can get ahead and it drives down wages everywhere.
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Hence, gents, why I said "If you have the ability to stomach it" based on your personal situation. :) If you can't do it for some reason, my post doesn't apply to you.

drunkenbeagle, you're correct about the first 10 years; I actually did get hit by the furlough fairy after my first year at a regional, and it's taken 6-7 years after that to land a job with a respectable income. However, total career earnings is what you need to look at. If you're over a certain age, it may not make sense to go to a regional. I personally have 35 years to go (though I'd like to be out sooner than that), so I'll more than make up those early low earnings unless the industry really takes a nose dive.
 
Roger Roger said:
Oh for goodness sake does it really need to devolve into my part of aviation is better than yours? Find a niche you like or can live with or that pays well or whatever, fly planes, cash the check, live within your means, and don't get into digital fisticuffs about whose fault it is that your paycheck isn't big enough.
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If that's what you're getting out of this discussion, I don't know what to tell ya. :)

I guarantee the math will show that over the long term, building jet time early will result in higher career earnings. It's disingenuous to say that it's wrong to go to a regional, just because someone makes more over the short term.
 
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