Forbes Article on Regional Pilot Pay vs McDonalds Pay

jtrain609 said:
I love it when we have an eight page thread with non-airline pilots talking with other non-airline pilots about how much airlines suck, and how they know because they've never worked at an airline because they all suck.

Logic like this only works on the tubes.
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You know what? You are absolutely right on this. Screw the RJ pilots! I'm off to Orbitz to gets me some cheap tickets, and the sneer at the sucker standing by the door with an empty stomach, bags under his eyes, and stripes on his shoulders.

We might be non-airline pilots talking about this. Ever consider, however, that because this isn't JUST a pro-pilot board, but a future pro-pilot board, that there are people here who still have genuine concern over what is happening in the industry? I'm in that group. I'm on the cusp of pulling a career change. I'd love to fly 121. But I know better. Not just because what I see here, but what I hear from real life, face-to-face friends who are RJ pilots, and some who have been. In addition, just being part of the flying public, I do have legitimate concerns about the folks that fly me around. I want them to be well-rested, well-compensated, and generally happy about life. It bodes pretty well for my safe arrival.
 
Orbitz? Pish Posh, I'm still sitting on 500,000 AA miles......

Gimme dem free seats! :) *


*Note: Truly a fantasy getting an award ticket out of KGRR
 
jtrain609 said:
I love it when we have an eight page thread with non-airline pilots talking with other non-airline pilots about how much airlines suck, and how they know because they've never worked at an airline because they all suck.

Logic like this only works on the tubes.
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Why pilots that are otherwise qualified to be working at an airline choose not to seems incredibly relevant to the topic, no? Scarcity of pilots is the only thing that will drive up pay. Low pay did not drive down the supply of pilots, but experience requirements seem to be having that effect now. Hell, I can't find a single instructor to cover for me around here, and I would like a break.

I know a lot of pilots, airline and non-airline. The airline guys bitch more, fact. DPApilot - how is corporate flying comparing to your old airline gig? And he was living it up with 3 day overnights in the Caribbean every time I talked to him.
 
GypsyPilot said:
You make over $50k as a CFI?
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Not over, but there were couple years where I came close. It wasn't all from the flight school. I did a lot of independent work as well.

Even though the money was good, you still never knew where your next paycheck was going to come from. It was a tough pace to keep. I was just lucky enough to have a few good clients to keep me busy through the fall and winter months for a couple years.
 
SteveCostello said:
You know what? You are absolutely right on this. Screw the RJ pilots! I'm off to Orbitz to gets me some cheap tickets, and the sneer at the sucker standing by the door with an empty stomach, bags under his eyes, and stripes on his shoulders.

We might be non-airline pilots talking about this. Ever consider, however, that because this isn't JUST a pro-pilot board, but a future pro-pilot board, that there are people here who still have genuine concern over what is happening in the industry? I'm in that group. I'm on the cusp of pulling a career change. I'd love to fly 121. But I know better. Not just because what I see here, but what I hear from real life, face-to-face friends who are RJ pilots, and some who have been. In addition, just being part of the flying public, I do have legitimate concerns about the folks that fly me around. I want them to be well-rested, well-compensated, and generally happy about life. It bodes pretty well for my safe arrival.
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If you knew better you'd look past first year pay, ignore the complainers on the tubes and get to a meet and greet.

There's still time to know better.

I've had scores of people from this website call myself and some other people around here to get the real skinny on what life is like. Want my number? I'm happy to talk.

Also, our pay has noting to do with what mainline charges for the ticket. Our labor costs are set for the main line partner for a decade no matter what they charge for a ticket. We are a different company (all are except the wholly owned carriers.) and our balance sheets have nothing to do with ticket prices.

At all.

In any way.

If our pay goes up, it costs the regional more dollars, not the mainline partner.

I cannot stress that enough, and again, the amount of financial misunderstanding here that is being dragged around as fact is mind blowing.
 
I can definitely appreciate that. And as a result of being around here for a year, I better understand the relationship that exists between the mainlines and the regionals. Thankful for that, and thankful for the opportunity to continue learning.

And the webbernets suck for trying to be funny sometimes... I was very much tongue in cheek with my first sentence in the quote you posted. Goofy voice and all. :confused:
 
jtrain609 said:
...our balance sheets have nothing to do with ticket prices.

At all.

In any way.
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This. It's not surprising some of the comments since they think this is a true supply and demand problem. While I am not saying it isn't partially related to supply and demand, I would bet money that the vocal commenters on the article have no idea how regional airlines are paid by their mainline partners.
 
jtrain609 said:
If our pay goes up, it costs the regional more dollars, not the mainline partner.

I cannot stress that enough, and again, the amount of financial misunderstanding here that is being dragged around as fact is mind blowing.
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That's true, but misleading. Pay is the only variable cost a regional really has. And the only revenue comes from the contract with the major partner. When a regional goes bankrupt (they all eventually will), their mainline partner is going to be a creditor. The result is - contracts go to regionals with the lowest cost structure and youngest pilot group. It is a positive feedback loop that structurally encourages eventual bankruptcies, and I think that is entirely intentional.
 
Derg said:
Did you actually read what I posted or did you simply look for something to shake your fist against? :)

Ayn Rand is dead and fodder for college juniors who don't know any better.
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I'm not sure why Ayn Rand creeps into this, why you subtly decide to lecture me about it and the snark about "college juniors know better" or really anything else you usually write in regards to my posts. Did you read what I wrote, or were you simply looking for something to shake your fist against?

The idea that "door to door" vacuum cleaner salesman, or any other kind of passenger having any bearing or impact on what any airline pilot makes is laughable. The blame belongs to airline pilots alone. Management isn't even to blame. People accepting jobs with inadequate pay is the blame. Period.
 
Airline travel is a commodity. It's like electricity or natural gas. It needs to be regulated. The free market system doesn't work for airline travel. Never has, never will.
 
cezzna said:
Airline travel is a commodity. It's like electricity or natural gas. It needs to be regulated. The free market system doesn't work for airline travel. Never has, never will.
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Consumer electronics, dog food, and Frozen Concentrated Orange Juice are all commodities, and not terribly regulated. They all seem to be doing fine...

Air travel is also something with elastic demand. If you increase costs, demand decreases, pilots get furloughed. Pilots are capable of taking jobs with fair pay. If you don't like it, do something else. That will have exactly the outcome that you want.
 
WacoFan said:
So you think that making more money would have enabled that crew to recognize and recover from a stall?
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yes. I think that not being Tired...
Tired from commuting
Tired of trying to eek out a living from people who are reducing your QOL for more profit to them
Tired from sleeping in a crew lounge because you can't afford a place to sleep that would allow true crew rest
Tired of being being expected to act professionally in an environment that doesn't honor your efforts

Now they were unprofessional, and they shouldn't have been so that's on them...and they paid ultimately for it.

Problem is, right now there are HUNDREDS of others in the same boat with the same attitude...waiting for the swiss cheese to line up.

I saw it at our airline... we were lucky that we didn't, through sheer negligence and hubris, (all while the two pilots were talking crap <well deserved but inappropriately timed> about management) auger one in just before the Colgan crash by running a perfectly good airplane out of fuel.

You get what you pay for and if you abuse your engine by not putting fresh oil in it it's going to fail.
 
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