Forbes Article on Regional Pilot Pay vs McDonalds Pay
- Thread starter SeanD
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JustinS
Well-Known Member
I suppose, but how much did it cost Colgan when they lost a Q400, 4 trained crew members, and 45 passengers? The cost incurred could potentially justify spending a little bit more to mitigate risk of such an expensive loss... I would think that for a pilot to bring his/her A game, the airline might want to consider how they treat their pilot groups. However, we bump into this problem that pilots take jobs to fulfill their life long dreams, and are willing to sacrifice QOL to do it. So it seems that until airlines start having to park planes because pilots aren't willing to put up with the poor QOL then the airlines will keep milking pilots for all they're worth...
desertdog71
Girthy Member
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I totally agree - even without the merger, the accident would have probably done Colgan in. And I imagine many airlines have taken a look at this and have adjusted their own hiring/training procedures accordingly, even absent government regulation.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Has nothing to do with determining wages. The guys working at the water department control the safety of millions, as do Air Force Captains sitting in missile silos. They don't make millions...
If starting tomorrow, every pilot with an ATP refused to take a job at an airline unless first year pay was $100,000, guess what would happen?
Pilots are suckers though, and someone will be willing to stab everyone else in the back. If they were smart, non-union pilots would form a guild or association that prevented members from taking crappy jobs.
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
It's great. I love instructing on the side and flying for fun.
Now then, I would love to be a professional full-time pilot, I'd love it. But there is no way I'd work for the pay and conditions that most professional pilots put up with... so I dont.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Aon or Lloyds of London or whoever seem to be willing to stomach a few hull loses per year. No accidents would probably drive premiums low enough that they would have a hard time pricing risk.
JustinS
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I'm just having a difficult time buying this, because a fatigued person can do those jobs. Flying an airplane requires a person to have a personal risk assessment that demands proper rest and eating. QOL can have a huge effect on being able to accomplish both these physical needs. When I worked at a pizza place, it didn't matter if I had 3 hours of sleep the night before or slept on a couch at my parent's house. You could probably even say the same for working at a water treatment facility or sitting at a missile silo where hand eye coordination and ADM don't mean so much... However, you just can't say that's acceptable for pilots flying assets worth millions multiple times a day.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
I'm willing to eat some crap for a year to get to the upside.
It takes bawls to step out of your comfort zone and pursue what you want. Its easy to play self righteous rather than admit its more important to be comfortable than to jump in and tread water.
Derg worked for spit flying 1900's for Skyway. I doubt he is sorry he did given where he is now. Some win and some lose and most quit and cry about it or never try.
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rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
That's your choice, I'm hoping it works out well for you.
I'm all for pilots man, trust me I'm your cheerleader, I want you to succeed.
Yet, at the same time, it's pretty clear to me that pilots are their own worst enemy for the most part.
Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Someone stole my name in the comments section.
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Oh, that wasn't you threatening to crash planes and teach the flying public a lesson? LOL
desertdog71
Girthy Member
Its no different than any other business. I hear crap about a trucking strike every year and it never happens for the exact reason you think.
That being said, I govern my life in the world that is, not the world I wish we had.
"Who's flying your plane?" Yeah those signs were made and paraded around by mainline pilots. That is what you are up against as much as the guy next to you.
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Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Which is why 121 pilots have rest rules and pizza delivery drivers do not.
And how does rest play into the discussion of salary? Colgan asked the FO to be rested before showing up to work. If she wasn't, or put herself into a commuting situation where this wasn't possible, technically that's on her. It's definitely a crap sandwich, but nobody is forced to eat it.
Not being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate here. This is a challenge that many fields deal with. Imagine how quickly the NCAA would authorize paying players if all of a sudden top high school recruits started skipping NCAA schools and instead going straight to the CFL after high school for a few years before becoming draft eligible. Just read the Johnny Manziel story on ESPN and I have to say, it may have changed my opinion on paying college athletes.
JustinS
Well-Known Member
I worked at a pizza store that didn't deliver pizza. I would be a little more concerned with someone with that little sleep driving around at night delivering pizzas. Yeah, I agree it's really up to the pilot to be responsible about these things before work. It seems that pay can make life easier or harder leading up to your days on though.
I appreciate all the different views being brought to the table. It's an interesting topic, and there are a lot of different angles that we can sometimes forget to consider.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
The only lesson here is that no one cares whether you're chained to the yoke and fed dog food, provided you operate the appliance and they get where they're going. And it's an important lesson. Memorize it. The only people who think pilots are cool lifesaving heroes to be worshipped and adored are small children and other pilots. So stick it to the self loading freight every chance you get, cause they will most assuredly do the same to you, then brag about it.
NickH
Uber Driver
I'm not trying to insult anyone. Only pointing out that we have people here who believe that 3407 was caused by human factors super-gluing ice to the wings of the airplane, and not negligence. They aren't going to like the comments in the article.
Wouldn't change my path for the world.
I think what screwed the system up was NO ONE wanted to stay at Skyway so there was a good flow.
The good: Fairly fast career advancement. Very few "Welp, I'm gonna crank a couple kids out, get comfortable, buy a house in Milwaukee and, crap, I get weekends off" types to be career roadblocks. There was a light at the end of the tunnel as where when the majors stopped furloughing and started hiring, we were all positioned. Turbine time was like gold.
The bad: Our compensation, at the time, sucked. We worked on salary so $X for 60 hours of work and $X for 80 hours as well.
Today? Everyone and his uncle has SIC and PIC -- jet almost to the level that some of the "more sought after" airlines are looking for differentiators like public service and other things supposedly indicative of "well roundedness" to set candidates apart from the hordes.
Skyway pay sucked, but it wasn't a whole lot different than the Eagle family (wasn't single carrier then), ASA, ACA, Mesaba, etc. However, the difference was that when you were hired at Skyway, there was no training contract, no "bridge program" -- it's more or less a handshake after the interview and you're off to ground school in a couple of weeks, then onto LGA for sim training at FlightSafety.
I will admit it's tougher now for a number of reasons. Many people are attempting to make the regionals a career, either from the increased compensation (I'm making $80! Why do I want to go on probationary pay?), everyone has stratified experience (CRJ, ERJ, etc) and in my day, 4000 hours and you're golden. These days, there are 8000 hour FO's without a lick of jet PIC. Not like I had much, but I was four years from ERAU Seminole to Boeing 727 and that was, at the time, fairly leisurely.
I'm tired of talking for now, gonna go work out. Bye.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
I think thats precisely the attitude that leads to such low pay. I'm willing to eat crap also relative to the job. Paying dues or not, pilots are shooting themselves in the foot if they're going to work at an airline for 20k/yr.
It has nothing to do with being self righteous. When someone chooses to go and take that job, for that money, they lower the bar for everyone. As much as I trash regionals, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot. Theres no way in hell though I can do it when it means taking a 65% pay cut on top of giving up and 8 hour duty day, being home every night, and having weekends off, for the "privilege" of strutting around the terminal in a monkey suit and having some girl blog about how its sooooo cool to date me.
Think what you want, but theres a serious problem with the regionals when a dooshbag cowboy in a 185 is pulling in as much as a five year captain.
