For you trans oceanic pilots

[Polar742]

Do you have a lot of attrition among F/Os leaving for higher paying ex-pat jobs because of -400 time and type?

Nope, folks tend to leave only for CA gigs, and it seems that being CA makes that easier. At least that's what I've seen. The advice I've heard from many quadrants is "Don't go as an FO, unless it's like EK, CX or somewhere like that..."

 

[PW127F]

The PIC remains the Captain, when this first became an issue NWA slogged it out and the answer they got from the FAA was that the Captain is still PIC even though he may be sleeping.

At some airlines (none in the US that I know of) they carry two complete crews and the second Captain assumes command for the rest portion of the flight.

But legally the guy sleeping down back is still the PIC

 

[RightSeatGirl]

Just a pseudo related comment....I kind of pisses me off that any airline, legacy, regional or otherwise ever bothers to give F/O's who meet ATP mins an SIC type rating. They should have to give the full privileged thing during initial imho..

 

[PW127F]

It makes sense to give them an SIC type rating.

Makes it harder for them to bugger off overseas... because the SIC type is worth jack outside of the states.

In fact correct me if i'm wrong but was only created because the US was not in accordance with ICAO in that airlines (Regional) were flying with first officers who were not type rated. (IE. to places like Canada etc)

 

[bafanguy]

Do you have a lot of attrition among F/Os leaving for higher paying ex-pat jobs because of -400 time and type?

blee,

Anything is possible (there are always exceptions to the rules, even the Jungle Rules) but from what I have learned about the expat market, SIC time is considered worthless, with a type rating meaning little unless you signed the dispatch releases (and yes, there are FO jobs but they are in the minority and requiring time in type). So, when one goes job hunting in the expat world, the battle cry is: type rated, current PIC PC (they ain't sending you to school...cuz they don't have to [ Japan may be an exception...until a couple of days ago]), xxx-xxxx hours PIC time in type, and likely an age limit in the early to mid 50's despite the age 65 thing.

Foreign airlines don't really want expats but have to take them because, for some reason, their country doesn't produce enough pilots with enough experience to carry out the business plan of a particular airline. As soon as they can, they will drop expats like a bad habit. Several Asian airlines have done just that in the last few days, dumping about 200 pilots with TONS of 777, 737, and 747 PIC time on the market.

There are, in fact, captain trees from which these airlines can pluck ready-made captains. Seniority ? That's a naive concept..put it aside.

The FOs come from locals with very low time in many cases.

The US seems to be a bit different in their attitude toward SIC time but PIC time is KING when all is said and done. From what I have observed, having a type rating means little...and having a good bit of experience without a type rating means even less.

It's a jungle out there. I'm fortunate to be living in the city.

 

[Polar742]

Just a pseudo related comment....I kind of pisses me off that any airline, legacy, regional or otherwise ever bothers to give F/O's who meet ATP mins an SIC type rating. They should have to give the full privileged thing during initial imho..

Just a couple things:

1) You can get a PIC type without meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for ATP

2) If it wasn't for ICAO's recent switch, there'd be no SIC type-ratings. It'd be just like it was for a hundred years, you'd have your comm/multi/inst and a company PC

bafan hit the nail on the head. Everything I've heard totally and completely jives with all the things I've heard (not that he needs any justification). Alot of the contracts say current/qualled and they mean it. There are, however, varying levels of training, and exceptions, but most right-here right-now contracts are just like he said.