meritflyer
Well-Known Member
When flying across seas and there's a relief pilot, when the CA goes to take a snooze, does he designate a PIC? If not, who's in control of the airplane when he's not in the cockpit?
For you trans oceanic pilots
- Thread starter meritflyer
- Start date
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
I don't know about other airlines, but at ours, the duties are diviied up prior to getting going. Almost all of us FOs are PIC rated, and those that aren't weren't for some silly technical reason, but will be soon.
Normal stuff is just handled.
If you're really in a bind, you wake the boss up, so you don't surprise 'em. Nobody likes surprises.
Hope that over-simplification answers your question.
Normal stuff is just handled.
If you're really in a bind, you wake the boss up, so you don't surprise 'em. Nobody likes surprises.
Hope that over-simplification answers your question.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
"So, uhm. We were arguing about what happens if you pull the C/Bs for all the INSes..."*
* - Reportedly, this actually happened on a UPS diesel 8, if memory serves. Dead Reckoning to Iceland! Earnest Gann approves! CP...not so much.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
The relief pilot assumes the role of whoever is taking the break. (PF, PNF, and which seat they sit in). Different airlines may do this differently. At one airline that I know of the flying crew and the relief pilots are determined by trips that are pilots schedule. At another three (or four) pilots show up for a flight and it is decided amongst them who will be flying and relief.
There must be at least PIC typed pilot in the cockpit at all times, (per ICAO riles) so if the crew consists of 1 CA and 2 FOs, at least one of the FOs must be PIC typed.
Is something important comes up then the boss should be woken up.
I'll just say that there have been a few 'interesting' things that happened with two fresh FOs sharing the seats up front.
There must be at least PIC typed pilot in the cockpit at all times, (per ICAO riles) so if the crew consists of 1 CA and 2 FOs, at least one of the FOs must be PIC typed.
Is something important comes up then the boss should be woken up.
I'll just say that there have been a few 'interesting' things that happened with two fresh FOs sharing the seats up front.
In our operation, we're all PIC type-rated.
I've never really heard the skipper designate a PIC when he's on break. Whenever I'm up in the cockpit with another FO, with the captain on break, we'll just talk about the abnormal, make a decision and execute it.
If the crap REALLY hits the fan and we're going to have to divert off track to an alternate, or there's been a significant malfunction which is going to affect the operation in terms of ETOPS, range or whatever, secure the situation, run the checklist and wake the other crewmember up, no matter if it's the captain or just a snoozing FO.
Oh, kind of a non sequitur about being PIC type-rated, the FAA has a higher expectation of your performance. So if the captain screws up, he's going to look at you and said, "Jimmy, you're type rated, why did you let the captain get into this situation?" True story! Certainly a story to be told "over beers".
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
I do know a guy that navigated across the north pole with a wristwatch with hands and the sun on a DC8.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Type rated and a designated PIC are two seperate concepts.
Seems that it *could* be a CRM nightmare in the right (or wrong) situation.
Seems that it *could* be a CRM nightmare in the right (or wrong) situation.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
In a domestic world, I see your point. Like when I flew with downgraded CAs after 9/11. "I'm type-rated, I know what I'm doing."
International world is a little different, since we almost always operate with 2 or 3 FOs. Especially at our airline where those with reps are well known. CAs tend not to let 2 of them be paired up front alone. And when they are, the CAs I drink with tend to tell me they tell them "He's in charge. Don't do stuff he doesn't want done."
Some stuff that happens over the NoPac stays over the NoPac
Nah, if you hire the right people to do the job, it's a non-event.
Plus, if the crap really hits the fan, pick up the interphone, push the "FWD"* button, wait for the "Trolly Dolly at One Left!" and scream "Wake that bastard and DO IT NOW!!!!"
* or the "CREW REST" button on a 12+ hour bird.
Delta really is Naval Academy south, huh?
Sez Barnacle Bill the saaaailoorrrrrr
That's a habit I picked up from a UPS 747 Captain that mentored me during my CFI years. Civilian, even.
mjg407
Well-Known Member
When people call me Captain, I keep looking around for the guy with the gray hair. I'm like Captain, no Commander....Sez Barnacle Bill the saaaailoorrrrrr
That's a habit I picked up from a UPS 747 Captain that mentored me during my CFI years. Civilian, even.
B767Driver
New Member
The senior F/O.
staplegun
Well-Known Member
I'm so telling you to "go fetch me some coffee" next time we fly together.
He's right, at Southern-Jets it goes by seniority.
You knew that, though, didn't you Doug?
Kevin
He's right, at Southern-Jets it goes by seniority.
You knew that, though, didn't you Doug?
Kevin
Must be in that book that I update every 12 months before the long recurrent!
blee256
Well-Known Member
Do you have a lot of attrition among F/Os leaving for higher paying ex-pat jobs because of -400 time and type?
