"For Many Years to Come"
- Thread starter Eagle
- Start date
jaylhumphrey
New Member
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
Sorry didn't mean to try and get all "economical" on an aviation forum. But the fact is that it is the company's bottom line that determines what someone gets paid. As an industry the airlines are experiencing a downturn in the number off paying customers. Since that is the case to stay solvent they have to either increase price (which would drive demand down even farther) or decrease operating cost (which is where the Captain's pay cut comes in).
Do you think Jason Kidd would be pulling 6 million a year if he was attracting as many fans as the hotdog vendor does?
Sorry didn't mean to try and get all "economical" on an aviation forum. But the fact is that it is the company's bottom line that determines what someone gets paid. As an industry the airlines are experiencing a downturn in the number off paying customers. Since that is the case to stay solvent they have to either increase price (which would drive demand down even farther) or decrease operating cost (which is where the Captain's pay cut comes in).
Do you think Jason Kidd would be pulling 6 million a year if he was attracting as many fans as the hotdog vendor does?
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Jason Kidd would be pulling 6 million a year if he was attracting as many fans as the hotdog vendor does?
[/ QUOTE ]
The hot dog vendor does not attract spectators. The spectators are there specifically for what Jason Kidd provides, consistent entertainment. The hot dog vendor serves the purpose of quick, easy to eat snack food in the duration of the sport.
The flight attendant and pilots are more or less the "Jason Kidds" of the airlines. A person chooses a ticket based off of price, service, and the extreme likelihood that they'll arrive alive.
Management determines the price.
IFS handles customer service onboard.
Pilots don't crash the jet.
Pretty simple!
Remember, if price is the sole determinant, if Air Nairobi offered $100 fares from DTW-LGA on a vintage ex-Aeroflot Tu-154, would anyone in their right mind put their families on that jet?
Keep in mind that this is a pilot website and I'm going to voraciously defend my livelihood.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Jason Kidd would be pulling 6 million a year if he was attracting as many fans as the hotdog vendor does?
[/ QUOTE ]
The hot dog vendor does not attract spectators. The spectators are there specifically for what Jason Kidd provides, consistent entertainment. The hot dog vendor serves the purpose of quick, easy to eat snack food in the duration of the sport.
The flight attendant and pilots are more or less the "Jason Kidds" of the airlines. A person chooses a ticket based off of price, service, and the extreme likelihood that they'll arrive alive.
Management determines the price.
IFS handles customer service onboard.
Pilots don't crash the jet.
Pretty simple!
Remember, if price is the sole determinant, if Air Nairobi offered $100 fares from DTW-LGA on a vintage ex-Aeroflot Tu-154, would anyone in their right mind put their families on that jet?
Keep in mind that this is a pilot website and I'm going to voraciously defend my livelihood.
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
N77J - you're saying that you have to 'bend over and take it' because you make only $16K a year?? This is a perfect illustration of a point Doug made earlier in the thread. Life is about choices. The ONLY reason that you make that salary is because you choose to. You choose to stay in Silicon Valley (sounds like you have family there) and you choose to throw bags for Delta (maybe you like working outside or being around airplanes - doesn't matter). People make different choices based on what's best for them - you choose to stay in a low paying job for your own set of reasons and that's perfectly fine - it's your life. Just don't go around saying that you're bending over and taking it because they don't pay you more. Anytime you CHOOSE to let me know - I can hook you up with a job out here managing a fast food restaurant for twice what you're making now.
I made a choice to make certain sacrafices for this career and in return I expected a certain level of compensation. In the American Captain's situation he made these sacrafices for a long time and I think it's perfectly acceptable that he(or anyone else) earns $157K a year. Looking back at the 10 years that my career has spanned and what I've gone thru and looking forward to the point that I would be in the right seat of a 777 quite honestly I would consider $95K a slap in the face.
I've done some soul searching and a little crystal ball looking and have come to the conclusion that if the economy starts a major turnaround tomorrow it would be a minimum of 15 years before I set foot on property at a major airline. Until that point my salary probably isn't going to significantly change. I'm tired of missing holidays, special occasions, family events, friends, and being on call 24/7/365 for $37K a year. I've made the choice to pursue another career that I have an interest in and that will provide me with the means to live the lifestyle I want.
It's all about choices.
Jason
N77J - you're saying that you have to 'bend over and take it' because you make only $16K a year?? This is a perfect illustration of a point Doug made earlier in the thread. Life is about choices. The ONLY reason that you make that salary is because you choose to. You choose to stay in Silicon Valley (sounds like you have family there) and you choose to throw bags for Delta (maybe you like working outside or being around airplanes - doesn't matter). People make different choices based on what's best for them - you choose to stay in a low paying job for your own set of reasons and that's perfectly fine - it's your life. Just don't go around saying that you're bending over and taking it because they don't pay you more. Anytime you CHOOSE to let me know - I can hook you up with a job out here managing a fast food restaurant for twice what you're making now.
I made a choice to make certain sacrafices for this career and in return I expected a certain level of compensation. In the American Captain's situation he made these sacrafices for a long time and I think it's perfectly acceptable that he(or anyone else) earns $157K a year. Looking back at the 10 years that my career has spanned and what I've gone thru and looking forward to the point that I would be in the right seat of a 777 quite honestly I would consider $95K a slap in the face.
I've done some soul searching and a little crystal ball looking and have come to the conclusion that if the economy starts a major turnaround tomorrow it would be a minimum of 15 years before I set foot on property at a major airline. Until that point my salary probably isn't going to significantly change. I'm tired of missing holidays, special occasions, family events, friends, and being on call 24/7/365 for $37K a year. I've made the choice to pursue another career that I have an interest in and that will provide me with the means to live the lifestyle I want.
It's all about choices.
Jason
Prospective_Pilot
New Member
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
Truly it is sad that corporate America is trying it's hardest to destroy the dreams that people like myself have just because they don't understand, or care what one is willing to sacrifice to pursue his/her dreams. I do believe airline pilots salaries will go back up again, but will the salaries ever rise to where they use to be?
In the early 90's when the economy fell to what extent were airline pilots affected then? What airline cut salaries the most? By how much? And when the economy did pick up did the salaries ever rise to where they had been? Or above where they had been?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!......
-Amos
Truly it is sad that corporate America is trying it's hardest to destroy the dreams that people like myself have just because they don't understand, or care what one is willing to sacrifice to pursue his/her dreams. I do believe airline pilots salaries will go back up again, but will the salaries ever rise to where they use to be?
In the early 90's when the economy fell to what extent were airline pilots affected then? What airline cut salaries the most? By how much? And when the economy did pick up did the salaries ever rise to where they had been? Or above where they had been?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!......
-Amos
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
[ QUOTE ]
So you'd be ok taking a pay cut to $9600.
Very big of you
[/ QUOTE ]
As I've made clear in other posts, I 'm very much in favor of pilots being well paid. That amount of scarifice and that level of responsibility, on a daily basis, for the lives of others deserves a high salary to go with it. I hope for his sake and for sake of others willing to make those same sacrifices that this pilot will see his former pay and position restored as soon as possible. However, that said, it's a heck of a lot easier to get by on $95,000 than $9600. Not luxury, but certainly comfortable. The lower your income, the more it hurts to have any of it taken away, either by taxes or pay cuts.
Not saying what happened to this fella didn't suck, and it's definately discouraging. But unless he's as dumb as I am when it comes to finances, he and his family will get by fine until things change for the better.
[ QUOTE ]
So you'd be ok taking a pay cut to $9600.
Very big of you
[/ QUOTE ]
As I've made clear in other posts, I 'm very much in favor of pilots being well paid. That amount of scarifice and that level of responsibility, on a daily basis, for the lives of others deserves a high salary to go with it. I hope for his sake and for sake of others willing to make those same sacrifices that this pilot will see his former pay and position restored as soon as possible. However, that said, it's a heck of a lot easier to get by on $95,000 than $9600. Not luxury, but certainly comfortable. The lower your income, the more it hurts to have any of it taken away, either by taxes or pay cuts.
Not saying what happened to this fella didn't suck, and it's definately discouraging. But unless he's as dumb as I am when it comes to finances, he and his family will get by fine until things change for the better.
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
[ QUOTE ]
Oh believe me, I know.
Anywhere you really want to live in this country is going to cost some big smackeroonies. We had a couple over at our house last night that found a fairly nice 2800 sq'ft house for around $210,000 without a 'lot premium'. Of course it's "zero lot lined", backs up to another house, 100% plain dirt, no view and 40 miles west of downtown PHX (far west of the west loop of 202 for you PHX people)
Holy crap! That's damned near Yuma!
They could almost justify flying a regional from there to downtown PHX and getting a cab to work because of the impending traffic snarls.
[/ QUOTE ]
You ain't kidding. I'm planning on possibly buying a home in the PHX area soon here. And when I say PHX, Doug, I'm using the term relatively...the home I want to buy is in Johnson Ranch, south of Queen Creek just inside Pinal County. Inside of Maricopa County, this same home (about 8 miles away) is $80K more in price! I'm not even thinking of looking into North PHX/SDL with homes in the late $200s/early $300s.
Pardon the digression though..........
IMO, the days of the old airline "A" scale are long gone, and won't ever back.
The day I showed up at ERAU for orientation (Doug: It was little Joey and me), the head of the flight department gets up on the podium and opens the orientation with the statement "Did you know that a 747 international Captain at United Airlines makes about $300,000+ per year? Ladies and Gentleman, welcome to ERAU, blah, blah, blah" Nice selling point then, but not so much now.
Regards, ops topics for airlines, I'm not a huge fan of Regional Jets, but at the same time, I think they're here to stay, and I can't understand why Boeing and Airbus don't jump on entering that market. It seems that the market is becoming [I'm reaching here...this is merely an outsiders view in, so correct me if I'm wrong] more of a point to point system rather than one of moving pax from the spokes to the hub. I say this due to the large amount fo RJs entering the market. IMO, Airbus and Boeing could easily jump on this bandwagon and design a 100 seater RJ along with "upgrade" aircraft such as 737-size for larger markets, and a 767-size one for even larger markets. For overseas ops/international, they could design a new series of 3-engine transports that would not be constrained by the limitations of ETOPS, and offer 3rd engine safety without the cost of a 4-engine airliner. IMO, the A380 probably won't be a huge hit, profit-wise, since having more smaller planes is better than having one large plane in today's market. One of my friends was telling me that in the 70s, Braniff would operate two 727s for every one DC-10 that American operated to the same destinations. Both airlines had approximately the same amount of seats, but Braniff had the flexibility to offer more departure times to allow more flexibility for pax; much like the modern-day Southwest does.
Just one mil pilot's perspective from outside in. All in all, I think I'm safer maintaining federal employment...maybe transfer to US Customs when I get even more sick (than I already am) of the AF.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh believe me, I know.
Anywhere you really want to live in this country is going to cost some big smackeroonies. We had a couple over at our house last night that found a fairly nice 2800 sq'ft house for around $210,000 without a 'lot premium'. Of course it's "zero lot lined", backs up to another house, 100% plain dirt, no view and 40 miles west of downtown PHX (far west of the west loop of 202 for you PHX people)
Holy crap! That's damned near Yuma!
[/ QUOTE ]
You ain't kidding. I'm planning on possibly buying a home in the PHX area soon here. And when I say PHX, Doug, I'm using the term relatively...the home I want to buy is in Johnson Ranch, south of Queen Creek just inside Pinal County. Inside of Maricopa County, this same home (about 8 miles away) is $80K more in price! I'm not even thinking of looking into North PHX/SDL with homes in the late $200s/early $300s.
Pardon the digression though..........
IMO, the days of the old airline "A" scale are long gone, and won't ever back.
The day I showed up at ERAU for orientation (Doug: It was little Joey and me), the head of the flight department gets up on the podium and opens the orientation with the statement "Did you know that a 747 international Captain at United Airlines makes about $300,000+ per year? Ladies and Gentleman, welcome to ERAU, blah, blah, blah" Nice selling point then, but not so much now.
Regards, ops topics for airlines, I'm not a huge fan of Regional Jets, but at the same time, I think they're here to stay, and I can't understand why Boeing and Airbus don't jump on entering that market. It seems that the market is becoming [I'm reaching here...this is merely an outsiders view in, so correct me if I'm wrong] more of a point to point system rather than one of moving pax from the spokes to the hub. I say this due to the large amount fo RJs entering the market. IMO, Airbus and Boeing could easily jump on this bandwagon and design a 100 seater RJ along with "upgrade" aircraft such as 737-size for larger markets, and a 767-size one for even larger markets. For overseas ops/international, they could design a new series of 3-engine transports that would not be constrained by the limitations of ETOPS, and offer 3rd engine safety without the cost of a 4-engine airliner. IMO, the A380 probably won't be a huge hit, profit-wise, since having more smaller planes is better than having one large plane in today's market. One of my friends was telling me that in the 70s, Braniff would operate two 727s for every one DC-10 that American operated to the same destinations. Both airlines had approximately the same amount of seats, but Braniff had the flexibility to offer more departure times to allow more flexibility for pax; much like the modern-day Southwest does.
Just one mil pilot's perspective from outside in. All in all, I think I'm safer maintaining federal employment...maybe transfer to US Customs when I get even more sick (than I already am) of the AF.
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
[ QUOTE ]
Don't know about "transferring" to Customs...but I do know that when you are interested, make sure you already applied the previous year! It takes a *long* time to get on with customs. Most average about a year, even coming from AD.
Chunk
[/ QUOTE ]
I should've said "getting hired on with......". By the transfer comment, I was inferring of keeping federal employment status, benefits-wise.
[ QUOTE ]
Don't know about "transferring" to Customs...but I do know that when you are interested, make sure you already applied the previous year! It takes a *long* time to get on with customs. Most average about a year, even coming from AD.
Chunk
[/ QUOTE ]
I should've said "getting hired on with......". By the transfer comment, I was inferring of keeping federal employment status, benefits-wise.
Snow
'Not a new member'
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
I think people's problems is they always spend all of their money reguardless of what they earn, so in that way you NEVER have enough money.
You don't have to have cable, you don't have to have a kickass stereo system or a new car you don't have to live in a ritzy neabourhood. As long as there's a roof over your head and food on the table that's all you really need.
I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money that's your problem but please don't complain about not having enough money.
I think people's problems is they always spend all of their money reguardless of what they earn, so in that way you NEVER have enough money.
You don't have to have cable, you don't have to have a kickass stereo system or a new car you don't have to live in a ritzy neabourhood. As long as there's a roof over your head and food on the table that's all you really need.
I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money that's your problem but please don't complain about not having enough money.
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
[ QUOTE ]
I think people's problems is they always spend all of their money reguardless of what they earn, so in that way you NEVER have enough money.
You don't have to have cable, you don't have to have a kickass stereo system or a new car you don't have to live in a ritzy neabourhood. As long as there's a roof over your head and food on the table that's all you really need.
I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money that's your problem but please don't complain about not having enough money.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is just about the most absurd thing you have ever written Snow.
[ QUOTE ]
I think people's problems is they always spend all of their money reguardless of what they earn, so in that way you NEVER have enough money.
You don't have to have cable, you don't have to have a kickass stereo system or a new car you don't have to live in a ritzy neabourhood. As long as there's a roof over your head and food on the table that's all you really need.
I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money that's your problem but please don't complain about not having enough money.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is just about the most absurd thing you have ever written Snow.
MarineNav
New Member
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
Hmmm...no one's mentioned that the unions are partly to blame as well. There's plenty of "blame" to go around and the little guys usually end up paying for the mistakes made by management. It just happens that pilots are well paid "little guys".
JR
Hmmm...no one's mentioned that the unions are partly to blame as well. There's plenty of "blame" to go around and the little guys usually end up paying for the mistakes made by management. It just happens that pilots are well paid "little guys".
JR
Capt. Spud
New Member
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
I know I don't post much on here, but I have the exact same view as Snow.
Obviously, everyone wants a high standard of living and to some they just don't realise what a high state of luxury that they live in, then they start taking it for granted.
I think we can all learn to be a little more humble and grateful for what we have.
Just an insight into how I *try* to look at things.
I know I don't post much on here, but I have the exact same view as Snow.
Obviously, everyone wants a high standard of living and to some they just don't realise what a high state of luxury that they live in, then they start taking it for granted.
I think we can all learn to be a little more humble and grateful for what we have.
Just an insight into how I *try* to look at things.
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
[ QUOTE ]
I know I don't post much on here, but I have the exact same view as Snow.
Obviously, everyone wants a high standard of living and to some they just don't realise what a high state of luxury that they live in, then they start taking it for granted.
[/ QUOTE ]
I still think that is silly, granted may people live paycheck to paycheck, are driving cars that cost more than what my father paid for his house 30 years ago, even more people are running around with credit card dept in the 5+ digit range.
Those are the people who I have no sympathy for when their dot com job goes dot bomb.
But there is another sector of the population who don’t fall into that sector.
Mrs. E and I have virtually no debt. We do carry mortgages on two of our houses, but no more than 40% of the value of the homes. We pay our credit card off 100% every month, except maybe once or twice a year where we let it float some. We have invested well, and have access to over 150% of our combined annual income. in cash, with one phone call. but all of that comes at a price.
I stayed at a level that negated advancement for 10 years, to ensure home stability.
We only buy used cars, all late model and under warranty, but used nonetheless, and we only pay cash.
We are pretty much homebodies, we both travel for work so we have no *need* to fly/travel some more.. so our idea of an ideal vacation is a week hiding in the mountains hiking or snowshoeing.
So to sit around and say, Hey taking a pay cut because you (generic you) are too irresponsible with you money is just plain wrong.
If I want to spend my hard earned dollars one bill at a time slipping it not the strippers thong.. Who are you to tell me it’s wrong. ...
[ QUOTE ]
I know I don't post much on here, but I have the exact same view as Snow.
Obviously, everyone wants a high standard of living and to some they just don't realise what a high state of luxury that they live in, then they start taking it for granted.
[/ QUOTE ]
I still think that is silly, granted may people live paycheck to paycheck, are driving cars that cost more than what my father paid for his house 30 years ago, even more people are running around with credit card dept in the 5+ digit range.
Those are the people who I have no sympathy for when their dot com job goes dot bomb.
But there is another sector of the population who don’t fall into that sector.
Mrs. E and I have virtually no debt. We do carry mortgages on two of our houses, but no more than 40% of the value of the homes. We pay our credit card off 100% every month, except maybe once or twice a year where we let it float some. We have invested well, and have access to over 150% of our combined annual income. in cash, with one phone call. but all of that comes at a price.
I stayed at a level that negated advancement for 10 years, to ensure home stability.
We only buy used cars, all late model and under warranty, but used nonetheless, and we only pay cash.
We are pretty much homebodies, we both travel for work so we have no *need* to fly/travel some more.. so our idea of an ideal vacation is a week hiding in the mountains hiking or snowshoeing.
So to sit around and say, Hey taking a pay cut because you (generic you) are too irresponsible with you money is just plain wrong.
If I want to spend my hard earned dollars one bill at a time slipping it not the strippers thong.. Who are you to tell me it’s wrong. ...
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
I agree with Eagle here. The point isn't how much he was making before or after the pay cut, its how large the pay cut was. I make $16k/year roughly, I get paid twice a month, and almost every penny of it goes to living expenses. If my pay got cut by 40%, I'd be on the street. It doesnt matter if you make $16k, or $100k, a 40% paycut is definitely something to bitch about. Everyone should try to live within their means. People who are doing just that with their $100k/year salary will no longer be able to do it when that gets chopped by 40%, and that isn't fair. Especially for a pilot who's worked so hard and dedicated so much to get there. Like I said, its the size of the pay cut thats something to bitch about, not the size of the paycheck. If I went from $157k to $95k, I'd be royally pissed too!
I agree with Eagle here. The point isn't how much he was making before or after the pay cut, its how large the pay cut was. I make $16k/year roughly, I get paid twice a month, and almost every penny of it goes to living expenses. If my pay got cut by 40%, I'd be on the street. It doesnt matter if you make $16k, or $100k, a 40% paycut is definitely something to bitch about. Everyone should try to live within their means. People who are doing just that with their $100k/year salary will no longer be able to do it when that gets chopped by 40%, and that isn't fair. Especially for a pilot who's worked so hard and dedicated so much to get there. Like I said, its the size of the pay cut thats something to bitch about, not the size of the paycheck. If I went from $157k to $95k, I'd be royally pissed too!
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
I remember when I was a Beech 1900 FO earning $14,400. Ends met because I lived in low-income, rent-controlled housing, considered a can of generic brand green beans a meal in itself and everything I owned could fit in the back of a 1992 pontiac grand am.
When I saw that Northwest was hiring pilots, starting at $49,000, I thought that "Wow, if I'm living on $14,400 a year, that's easily an extra $35,000 that I'll be able to play with! Wow, I'd be rolling in the dough.
I got hired at Delta in 1998 and new hire pay was $2000/month. Going from a 2nd year captain salary of $16,500 to earning $2000/month was like dying and going to heaven. I was so excited to get that first pay check because I could purchase red meat, take out my girlfriend to TGI Fridays every once in a while and afford to purchase beer in a bar, rather than a 6-pack of Old Milwaukee. We're talking "fat" pockets for Doug.
Then I realized that a lot of my classmates were ex-military where they had been earning in the $60,000 range, had a wife, children and a mortgage. $2,000/month is a much different animal when you're trying to put food on the table and pay a mortgage. Many, if not most, of the former military pilots (and some regional pilots) started saving years in advance to weather significantly lower probationary pay and some took second jobs.
In short, the monthly $2,000 that I was so ecstatic about was the same $2,000 that another person was trying to raise a family with while keeping the lights on.
So when people deride the situation with the AA captain going from $157K/year to $90K/year (or whatever the figure was), I think you need to walk a while in that man's moccassins before casting judgement on his situation.
I remember when I was a Beech 1900 FO earning $14,400. Ends met because I lived in low-income, rent-controlled housing, considered a can of generic brand green beans a meal in itself and everything I owned could fit in the back of a 1992 pontiac grand am.
When I saw that Northwest was hiring pilots, starting at $49,000, I thought that "Wow, if I'm living on $14,400 a year, that's easily an extra $35,000 that I'll be able to play with! Wow, I'd be rolling in the dough.
I got hired at Delta in 1998 and new hire pay was $2000/month. Going from a 2nd year captain salary of $16,500 to earning $2000/month was like dying and going to heaven. I was so excited to get that first pay check because I could purchase red meat, take out my girlfriend to TGI Fridays every once in a while and afford to purchase beer in a bar, rather than a 6-pack of Old Milwaukee. We're talking "fat" pockets for Doug.
Then I realized that a lot of my classmates were ex-military where they had been earning in the $60,000 range, had a wife, children and a mortgage. $2,000/month is a much different animal when you're trying to put food on the table and pay a mortgage. Many, if not most, of the former military pilots (and some regional pilots) started saving years in advance to weather significantly lower probationary pay and some took second jobs.
In short, the monthly $2,000 that I was so ecstatic about was the same $2,000 that another person was trying to raise a family with while keeping the lights on.
So when people deride the situation with the AA captain going from $157K/year to $90K/year (or whatever the figure was), I think you need to walk a while in that man's moccassins before casting judgement on his situation.
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
Raising a family on $2000 a month would indeed be difficult, if not impossible. My girlfriend struggles to support herself and her 3 year-old daughter on $1400 a month. If it weren't for tax credits, she wouldn't be able to make it. Getting by on $95,000 a year is different matter, I think. My parents' combined income equalled a little less than that. Not the lap of luxury, to be sure, but comfortable. My parents always had new cars, and put two kids through college. I feel extremely fortunate that I don't have a dime of school debt, unlike many of my friends.
I took Snow's point earlier to mean that if you can't raise a family on $95,000 a year, and comfortably, then you're doing something wrong. In counterpoint to Eagle's argument: If you spend it all on strippers, and then complain that you can't make ends meet, well you've lost me.
Again, I am the first person to advocate for pilots' making more than a decent living. But the thing that makes me feel bad for the guy in question is not that he has to sell his summer home (in my family, anything more than one house is considered a luxury, lucky to have one) but that he's worked his ass off to get where he is and has the right to expect more from the people he's working for.
Raising a family on $2000 a month would indeed be difficult, if not impossible. My girlfriend struggles to support herself and her 3 year-old daughter on $1400 a month. If it weren't for tax credits, she wouldn't be able to make it. Getting by on $95,000 a year is different matter, I think. My parents' combined income equalled a little less than that. Not the lap of luxury, to be sure, but comfortable. My parents always had new cars, and put two kids through college. I feel extremely fortunate that I don't have a dime of school debt, unlike many of my friends.
I took Snow's point earlier to mean that if you can't raise a family on $95,000 a year, and comfortably, then you're doing something wrong. In counterpoint to Eagle's argument: If you spend it all on strippers, and then complain that you can't make ends meet, well you've lost me.
Again, I am the first person to advocate for pilots' making more than a decent living. But the thing that makes me feel bad for the guy in question is not that he has to sell his summer home (in my family, anything more than one house is considered a luxury, lucky to have one) but that he's worked his ass off to get where he is and has the right to expect more from the people he's working for.
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
I just like to say no matter what salary you earn, a pay cut is still a pay cut. Someone who makes $150,000/year does not like taking a pay cut anymore than a person making $24,000/year. Once we have our jobs and are used to the income we are paid, it is very difficult for anyone to be asked to take less compensation no matter the job. We are all compensated for our skills, knowledge, expertise and expect to be paid accordingly.
Being asked or told to take less money than someone in the same profession is very difficult. I wouldn't be critical to pilots who have accomplished their dreams and maybe compensate better than you or I. Isn't that the reason why you or anyone else is trying to work in this profession besides for the love of flying?
Plainly, pay cuts hurt no matter the profession. Yes you may believe it is easier for someone with more money but until you walk in that persons shoes you are just speculating.
I just like to say no matter what salary you earn, a pay cut is still a pay cut. Someone who makes $150,000/year does not like taking a pay cut anymore than a person making $24,000/year. Once we have our jobs and are used to the income we are paid, it is very difficult for anyone to be asked to take less compensation no matter the job. We are all compensated for our skills, knowledge, expertise and expect to be paid accordingly.
Being asked or told to take less money than someone in the same profession is very difficult. I wouldn't be critical to pilots who have accomplished their dreams and maybe compensate better than you or I. Isn't that the reason why you or anyone else is trying to work in this profession besides for the love of flying?
Plainly, pay cuts hurt no matter the profession. Yes you may believe it is easier for someone with more money but until you walk in that persons shoes you are just speculating.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Re: \"For Many Years to Come\"
The thing that steams me isn't that there are pay cuts being implemented and furloughs.
It's that the buttheads calling for them are the ones who steered their airlines into billions of dollars of losses, yet they're collecting tens of millions in compensation. And they're telling people who make five percent of their salary that sacrifice is needed?
Screw that.
The thing that steams me isn't that there are pay cuts being implemented and furloughs.
It's that the buttheads calling for them are the ones who steered their airlines into billions of dollars of losses, yet they're collecting tens of millions in compensation. And they're telling people who make five percent of their salary that sacrifice is needed?
Screw that.
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