For All of you Skeptics...

T

Tazman282

New Member
I am a current student in the Pace Program here at MAPD and the new numbers just came in, apparently there were all but two that didn't make it. So even though Mesa isn't hiring off the street, they are still hiring from the program. I know there are a lot of you out there that don't believe in this program and think your money is better spent somewhere else, but I don't totally disagree with you. I did a lot of research myself after graduating from Embry Riddle and the numbers from this program speak for themselves. I could have gone on and instructed like most of my friends, all of which are still instructing and no where near the minimums yet. I am here looking to have an interview in the near future. Granted if this were to fall through, I would be a little bit behind. However, if you don't have an extensive criminal history, bad attitude and you are willing to put in the effort, why do you believe you would be in that 10%. The statistics speak for themselves. From my experience here at MAPD the ones that didn't get hired all had reasons. Some had bad criminal history that they didn't put down when they entered the program, they lied on their application, or they had really bad attitudes. I am not trying to sell you on this program but merely putting my experience out on the table for some of you to read. There is always going to be the ones that bash this program, but they are the ones that haven't attended or gotten hired by an airline. Good luck on your path to success, there are many different roads and none of them are better than the other.

David Dohring
 
"There is always going to be the ones that bash this program, but they are the ones that haven't attended or gotten hired by an airline."

I bash MAPD because I don't believe 300 hour pilots belong in the right seat of an RJ. All the Mesa pilots I know, that would be five, agree with me and none of them did MAPD. I think the only folks who LIKE the program are JO and and MAPDers themselves. I know MAPD and PACE are two diffferent things. If you went to ERAU and then PACE, you probably have quite a bit of time.

Between ERAU and Mesa, how much have you spent on your career so far? Just curious.
 
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If you went to ERAU and then PACE, you probably have quite a bit of time.


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Not always true - most PACER's come in with 200-300 hours TT, and get about 5-10 in the baron before going to the Jetsim. We get a lot from ERAU, ATP, and other big name flight schools as well as some from the 61 route.

There are extremes, but for the most part everyone pretty much comes in with lower time.

Dave, keep in mind that the people that recently put into ground school were "hired" about 6 months ago...you've got a loooong wait ahead. Also, getting "hired" doesn't equate to a job just yet.

In the April 11th class I think about half of the people came from MAPD. The other half were off the street new hires - FYI.
 
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Dave, keep in mind that the people that recently put into ground school were "hired" about 6 months ago...you've got a loooong wait ahead.

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Thanks, Matt. I was about to ask what the lag time was from "hired" to "class date." I know a guy who was "hired" at Skyway, but he's been waiting on a class date for close to a year. Needless to say, he's moved on.
 
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There is always going to be the ones that bash this program, but they are the ones that haven't attended or gotten hired by an airline.

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Haha, or they have half a brain. Or they don't have "shiny jet syndrome." Have fun at Mesa.
 
The only reason there is a pool without ground schools is because of the 1900 guys transitioning over to the jet. They have had classes just not for the new hires which would include those street hires you are referring to. The ones that were just hired from the program were told to look at the end of May into June.

Don't take this as fact, but what I have heard second hand.
 
Okay, so when is Mesa taking delivery of new jets? How many captains are leaving for major jobs? The reason I decided not to go to MAPD was the growth at Mesa has slowed to a crawl. If the guys starting ground school now were hired 6 months ago, what's to say there will still be ground schools in 6 months. I don't see United and US Air making big moves, and I didn't want to bet $10K on them.

I agree that MAPD is a good program, but it locks you in with one airline, and if things get rocky, you're sunk with only 300-400 hours.
 
Someone who is in the PACE program now: What would the realistic timeframe be for someone who would enter the PACE program in august of this year be until actually in an airline training class with MESA? -just wondering thanks
 
Honestly, if anyone can answer that question, the airlines would hire them in management. There's no way to tell for sure. If US Air and HP merge, things could seriously pick up at Mesa. If that goes by the wayside, expect to see Air Whisky and Republic getting the contracts thanks to their $$$ bail outs, and you'll be waiting a while for that class date. Nothing is certain in the aviation world past three days from now....
 
Tazman sent me quite a few PM's but, though I encouraged him too, he seems to not want to continue his support of MAPD at this thread.

He told me he spent 170K so far. I about fell over....
 
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Tazman sent me quite a few PM's but, though I encouraged him too, he seems to not want to continue his support of MAPD at this thread.

He told me he spent 170K so far. I about fell over....

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Oh MY GHANDI!!!
 
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He told me he spent 170K so far. I about fell over....

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I think I need to quelch this fire before it gets outta hand - PACE at MAPD is about $12k for those people who can operate an aircraft to commercial/inst PTS standards when coming in. Half of that is the Baron/Sim stuff and half is the jetsim. If they can't fly to those standards, they must train more and hence more $$.

ERAU sucks people dry - I spent about $80k or so (35 on flight, 45 on the 4 year degree and living expenses). How someone could spend $155-$160k there just BOGGLES MY MIND.

I agree, its expensive and if I were to do it again I wouldn't attend ERAU (I was luck enough to only owe $14k to student loans at the end of my tenure there). But to say someone spent $170k and infer its from PACE is just incorrect.

~wheelsup

Edit: John were the hell ya been? Long time no see...hope everything is going good in FLA, I hope to be back down there soon!
 
It was between ERAU and PACE. Not just PACE.

I'm just repeating what he told me.

We went back and forth, via PM's (which I really don't like) about the logic and reasoning between his path and other paths to the cockpit. His arguments were respectful and well thought out. To me, it's a waste to have a good PM debate and not keep it at the fourms where everyone can benefit from it.
 
Things are SMOKIN' down here!

Business is great, would love to see you when you get down here. Be sure and drop by - you won't recognize the office - 4 people in there now LOL.
 
what are mesa's JR bases? and how many total students are at PAce? and what happens to those two who were not hried reapply again?
 
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what are mesa's JR bases? and how many total students are at PAce? and what happens to those two who were not hried reapply again?

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I'm just finishing up PACE now. I thought I knew all the PACErs, but for some reason I don't recognize Dave's name unless he's in the Summer PACE.

The two that didn't finish PACE left on their own decision, one decided not to complete the program and left midway in the program didn't even get to the Baron. The other completed, but decided to work for the State Police somewhere. It wasn't that they weren't hired.

None of the MAPD program from the Spring semester have been interviewed or hired. I'm not expecting to interview for a few months. Even if I am hired, I am only hired into a hiring pool behind all the Fall Semester folks. I think the MAPDer's that got called into the Apr 11 ground school were the MAPDer's from the end of the Summer 2004 group/beginning of the Fall 2004 group. So I don't expect to see a ground school any time soon or in the near or far term. The Chief Flight Instructor pointed to a whole stack of folders of people who were finished with the MAPD program from the Fall semester (at least 10 - about 1/5-1/6 of the Fall class) but haven't submitted their application with Mesa. So that kind of boggles me. If you spent that kind of money for the program, then there's really nothing to lose by submitting an application. Submit the application and you just move on with your life.

MAPD did hold a CFI class. A lot of people who did want to take it were unable because they were sked in the JetSim at the same time.

My costs were:
$1200 Frasca 242,
$1900 Baron
$5150 JetSim
$130 CRJ Systems Ground School
$130 Multi-Engine Ground School
$130 Instrument Ground School
Total $8670.

I don't think that I wouldn't do this again looking in hindsight. I learned a lot about the CRJ-200 specifically and IFR / 121 Rules and flying in general. I got to play touchy-feely with 1900s, poking around and dissecting the 1900 with the maintenance guys. But I think poking around with the 1900, physically seeing the kind of aircraft systems we talked about in the CRJ systems class and how they are interrelated was the most valuable take-away for me. It's not the same exact system, but they're similar. Especially systems that I wouldn't see in a Cessna or Piper, etc. Playing with a 1900 isn't something I can get at an FBO or do as a CFI. Sometimes I wished we had a CRJ-200 to play touchy-feely with.

I liked a few things about the flight program that I'll incorporate into my CFI bag of tricks, and there were things that I didn't like that I won't incorporate.

I was working on my CFI before I went into MAPD, and now that I've completed the PACE program, I'll go back to finishing up the CFI and moving on. If I get a call, then that is great. If not, then it was a good learning experience that cost me $8670 which is about the same cost as my private Part 61 - I'm just a little bit slower hands on learner.

Anyways that's my two cents...
 
"finished with the MAPD program from the Fall semester...but haven't submitted their application with Mesa."

Maybe they are getting hired elsewhere or they are deciding that working for Mesa isn't worth it anymore.
 
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"finished with the MAPD program from the Fall semester...but haven't submitted their application with Mesa."

Maybe they are getting hired elsewhere or they are deciding that working for Mesa isn't worth it anymore.

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This is what I was afraid of and why I decided to get my CFI ratings instead. I don't consider $8,670-12,000 for a systems class and some time in a Baron that good of a buy. That's just my opinion, though. I'd rather spend somewhere around that and get my CFI ratings so I can get a job instead of spending that cash and then ALSO having to spend more money for the CFI.

Another problem I have is the instrument and multi-engine classes you have to take at PACE. You need both an IR and at least a Commercial to get in. I can see sending the guys who only have a Comm SE into the multi class, but can't one of their CFIs get you up to speed on their standards on the other stuff?
 
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Another problem I have is the instrument and multi-engine classes you have to take at PACE. You need both an IR and at least a Commercial to get in. I can see sending the guys who only have a Comm SE into the multi class, but can't one of their CFIs get you up to speed on their standards on the other stuff?

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I agree with this - however I'd say on average 70-80% of the PACE'ers coming in need a refresher. It's not all of them, but most, honestly, need some extra schooling.

The multi class, as far as I know, isn't just about aerodynamics (although they do cover that) but also about systems on the baron etc. etc. The cost is the same as about 3 hours of ground training at your typical flight school prices. So honestly, I think for the $$ it's not bad.

As far as the instrument class you have to take, not everyone needs it but its needed upwards of 99% of the time (no joke). Most of the PACE'ers come in from a controlled environment and have no idea what shooting the whole approach is like, or what to do on some of our crazy approaches (check out the DRO ILS-2 if you're bored), or how to read an approach plate for the whole procedure, or that you don't have to do the PT as published etc. etc. And again, for $130 its a good refresher, and is taught by some retired major airline folks. I hope to sit in on a few classes during my last semester here...

Ok enough with defending the program
smile.gif
. Honestly, it's not that good of a deal even IF mesa was hiring like gangbusters. I feel so bad for the incoming [PACE] class because if they'd only CFI'd for the time that they spent here and will spend waiting for a class date they'd be golden. Not to mention the $$ they'd of saved.

However, if the America West/US Air deal goes through and Mesa leverages themselves to be the sole feeder, those kids will be in a pretty good position. Aviation is all about timing...and luck!

~wheelsup
 
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