FO Question

[CaptBill]

There is a difference in being a "little uncomfortable" with an approach and "knowing" it is unsafe. Remember, our job
(both the CA and the FO) is to manage risk...period.
Your training and company guidelines (likely based on past issues) are there to minimize risk. Don't compromise your professional responsibility and personal integrity by letting some clown do stupid things with you, your passengers or your career.

Be courageous and let the captain know that his or her flying performance is unacceptable. Call the "Go Around" or say anything else you feel appropriate at the time, but do the right thing.

There is a time and a place for deference, this isn't it.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Speak up. You are there for more than swinging the gear. With that said, it is easy to Monday Morning QB this on the interwebz. Chalk it up as a learning experience and do it right next time.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Then again, I've become somewhat desensitized over the last few months. Or FOQA program is pretty busy here.

Seems to me...repeated, high-cycle days to the same airports will do that.

 

[BobDDuck]

Seems to me...repeated, high-cycle days to the same airports will do that.

Yes. Also an airplane that has a very wide and forgiving flight envelope tends to encourage it.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Yes. Also an airplane that has a very wide and forgiving flight envelope tends to encourage it.

I uh, I don't know anything about that, sir.

 

[BobDDuck]

I uh, I don't know anything about that, sir.

Slats/Flaps 40/Gear out/idle thrust and it comes down like a rock.

Umm... so I've been told.

 

[z987k]

Slats/Flaps 40/Gear out/idle thrust and it comes down like a rock.

Umm... so I've been told.

Power idle, props max, gear down. (not sure what the flap/slat speeds are on the airplane you're talking about.) We'll beat a rock to the ground.

 

[mikecweb]

Power idle, props max, gear down. (not sure what the flap/slat speeds are on the airplane you're talking about.) We'll beat a rock to the ground.

Beta will beat you.

 

[SurferLucas]

Q400 with gear down, flaps 35, and full beta...15000fpm+...according to someone I know

 

[ASpilot2be]

Flight idle on the CASA will drop it like its hot.

I already miss the CASA.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Beta will beat you.

...quite literally.

Warning, you're going to hear some guys die:

CAUTION: DO NOT SET POWER LEVERS BELOW FLT IDLE IN FLIGHT

 

[z987k]

Beta will beat you.

Unless you're in a pc6, that's not advised.

 

[mikecweb]

Story time...

 

[SpiceWeasel]

...quite literally.

Warning, you're going to hear some guys die:

CAUTION: DO NOT SET POWER LEVERS BELOW FLT IDLE IN FLIGHT

So... Mechanical issue?

No inputs shown for the power quadrant.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

So... Mechanical issue?

No inputs shown for the power quadrant.

I'd have to look, but the Brasilia as originally certificated was like many other commuter airplanes that didn't have as positive a stop at flight idle as it does now. It was like the CASA (which, if memory serves, still permits the selection of blade angles below flight idle inflight) in which you could merely lift the triggers on the power levers and select blade angles below flight idle. (This action also cuts the prop and overspeed governors out of the loop - duh) We now have the SFIS - secondary flight idle stop - which inserts a solenoid out in the nacelle power lever rigging that mechanically prevents retarding the power levers below FLT IDLE without weight on wheels. Works good, lasts long time.

Paragraph II is that above 125% Np, the pitch change mechanism doesn't have enough authority to feather the propeller.

Paragraph 3 is that if you have such a large thrust asymmetry, you must use power and rudder with care. This guy cobbed the operating PL, which made the situation worse.

 

[ASpilot2be]

I'd have to look, but the Brasilia as originally certificated was like many other commuter airplanes that didn't have as positive a stop at flight idle as it does now. It was like the CASA (which, if memory serves, still permits the selection of blade angles below flight idle inflight) in which you could merely lift the triggers on the power levers and select blade angles below flight idle. (This action also cuts the prop and overspeed governors out of the loop - duh) We now have the SFIS - secondary flight idle stop - which inserts a solenoid out in the nacelle power lever rigging that mechanically prevents retarding the power levers below FLT IDLE without weight on wheels. Works good, lasts long time.

Paragraph II is that above 125% Np, the pitch change mechanism doesn't have enough authority to feather the propeller.

Paragraph 3 is that if you have such a large thrust asymmetry, you must use power and rudder with care. This guy cobbed the operating PL, which made the situation worse.

In the CASA you cant pull back the power levers behind the gate unless you pull the left SRL switch.

 

[CFI A&P]

A friend of mine was asked about a scenario similar to this during a 121 interview. One of the applicants said that they wouldn't intervene because the captain is senior and more experienced so he wouldn't challenge him. My buddy responded with the radio call go around response. The interviewer asked the other applicant if he was really going to let someone fly the airplane into the ground probably killing them both?

 

[Roger Roger]

In the CASA you cant pull back the power levers behind the gate unless you pull the left SRL switch.

Had to set it up that way because no squat switch?

 

[ASpilot2be]

Had to set it up that way because no squat switch?

There is a squat switch. But in a good crosswind when the plane is light it wont always activate. Especially with a greaser landing. If you plant it on it will work.

 

[Roger Roger]

There is a squat switch. But in a good crosswind when the plane is light it wont always activate. Especially with a greaser landing. If you plant it on it will work.

So why the goofy beta lock setup?