Flying in China...?
- Thread starter popaviator
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flyremnant
Well-Known Member
well swisspilot
i actually lived in china for 1 year. I know it's not too long to really say anything, but during my stay there I didn't find it too bad. Yeah, the living style is a lot different form the USA. But I actually enjoyed my stay in China. Of course I would love to goto Hong Kong and Cathay is one of the airlines i really want to get into, but i'm working on my privates right now! If you can hook me up or have any information that will help me, please tell me!!!!! lol
Anyways, thank you and G'luck with your flying!!
i actually lived in china for 1 year. I know it's not too long to really say anything, but during my stay there I didn't find it too bad. Yeah, the living style is a lot different form the USA. But I actually enjoyed my stay in China. Of course I would love to goto Hong Kong and Cathay is one of the airlines i really want to get into, but i'm working on my privates right now! If you can hook me up or have any information that will help me, please tell me!!!!! lol
Anyways, thank you and G'luck with your flying!!
Zero1Niner
Well-Known Member
Careful...they say you can get warts by doing that. :bandit:
Zero1Niner
Well-Known Member
I spend a TON of time in China(and I am not just talking about HK or Shanghai...I am in many of the smaller cities all the time), and I must say personally, I think its amazing. The culture is amazing. The food ROCKS! The people are really friendly for the most part, and curious about westerners (can get a little annoying, but its just because you are unique to them.
I would do it in second if I had the opportunity.
I agree with zero1niner. I spent 8 months in 11 different cities. I have been trying to find a way back ever since. The people are so friendly, the food is awesome, and while the way of life is definitely different from here in the states, it isn't something that one can't get used to. The only Americans that seem to have problems with the way of life in China are the ones that take themselves too seriously. Like most, I am not an A-320 or 737 captain so I am stuck over here.
cadbury
Well-Known Member
Let me add on something. Singapore Int'l Airlines (aka SIA), is the first airline in the whole world to train foreign cadets. Thereafter, Cathay Pacific and Emirates.
SIA is the only airline that takes foreign nationalities as pilot cadet. However, Cathay Pacifc do not really choose their Hong Kees, instead they chose Aussies in their cadet pilot program!
As for Emirates, they consider their Middle East applicants first! Asians and Caucasians are difficult to get in!
To answer swisspilot, SIA takes in foreign F.O. It is because of the entire world economic, that they cut the intake of F.O.
F.Y.I., Cathay Pacific or Dragon Air, they do not have the capital to expand their fleet or buying A380.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
Emirates does not have any foreign cadets. Etihad has a few.
Typhoonpilot
Typhoonpilot
swisspilot
Well-Known Member
I know a senior pilot at SIA Cargo (he lives in my building) and my Ground school teacher at FSA was a chief pilot for them and for the Gulf Air Cadet program.
In order to apply to SIA/SIA Cargo or Silk Air you need to be from Singapore, be a permanent resident or be from Malaysia. I was in Singapore last year, it`s almost impossible to get permanent residence status without having a job offer/sponsor, the max I was able to get is a 60 days biz Visa....
Most airlines take foreign pilots, but they are residents in that country. If you haven`t seen the world yet, I can tell you it`s not really easy to move somewhere and live there, even if it`s a 3rd world country...
There is a big difference between a Cadet and an FO entry...even as FO it`s really hard, I have a friend currently flying 737-400 for AirAsia, American citizen, he was not able to get on with SilkAir..
Btw why would Dragon Air buy a A380??
Take care
cadbury
Well-Known Member
About Asia
Singapore Permanent Resident (P.R.) status is the world easiest to get! I can bet my head on the chopping board! Malaysia's P.R. is extremely tougher than United States' Greencard! I should say, Malaysia's P.R. is totally impossible. There are lots of legal stayers (unlike U.S.) in Malaysia for more than 20 years, and they still can't get a Malaysia P.R. and those Indonesians get their Malaysian P.R within less than 6 months! (I will tell you why if you want to know).
I can share with you, Singapore attracts lots of foreign talents. It is the only country in the Asia that gives job opportunities for foreign talents!
Just look at the two renowed instituitions from top 20 world universities, National University of Singapore (NUS) and Nanyang Technological University (NTU). The foreign students occupy more than 60%! Majority of the students are under Singapore Government subsidy! Where the heck in the world can you find such University? :dunno: Not only that, students have job automatically after they graduated. Most of them got blue card after two years of working.
Singapore has always been drawing foreign talents into Singapore. Recently, Minister of Mentor (of Singapore), Mr. Lee K Y., has stressed the importance of foreign immigrants (<~ right click to read news). Singapore's economical infrastructure is totally different from the rest of the countries. It is stable, lowest crime-rate in the entire Southeast Asia region, population's literacy is high, low jobless rate and etc.
Now, Malaysia rule by Malays and their Islamic religion comes first. She welcomes poeple to pump in money but not withdrawal after making profit. In another words, attracts foreign investment with low revenue return. This country is corrupted and everything is slow! (I am not not the only one who says this) Singapore and Malaysia are big contrast with each other! Their political mindset is Islamic and they do not really welcome foreigners stepping into Malaysia, though they never said so. Any good opportunities, priority will be given to the Malays first. Believe it or not, it is up to you. I can bet you with five bullets Russian revolver game.
I know you did not comment about Thailand but I just want to voice out. Kindly don't compare Singapore's expatriates with Thailand. Thailand is different country, fully corrupted and economical unstable. The Thai people riot every now and then. Most foreigners chose to settle there, are for two main reasons, "liberal" and "sex"! Also, there are lots of illegal immigrants in Thailand and they are from ever parts of the world. (Lots of Americans and Eurporeans). Pardon me for sharp and crude statements. It is still a fact.
Now, do you know what is Silkair's fleet first of all? Before Silkair is able to throw him online, he must be retrained. CCQ, type-tech and etc. are taxing.
I can tell you SIA (includng Silkair) has a robust training program for all transition! It is the tip-top best in Asia! SIA spent lots of money in training facilities and provide good training program for all pilots.
Since you know the senior pilot from SIA Cargo and Cheif Pilot, didn't they tell you this?
That's good!
Have you visited the Singapore Flyer, Chinatown, Little India, Orchard Road, Suntec City, Sentosa and etc.?
Singapore Permanent Resident (P.R.) status is the world easiest to get! I can bet my head on the chopping board! Malaysia's P.R. is extremely tougher than United States' Greencard! I should say, Malaysia's P.R. is totally impossible. There are lots of legal stayers (unlike U.S.) in Malaysia for more than 20 years, and they still can't get a Malaysia P.R. and those Indonesians get their Malaysian P.R within less than 6 months! (I will tell you why if you want to know).
I can share with you, Singapore attracts lots of foreign talents. It is the only country in the Asia that gives job opportunities for foreign talents!
Just look at the two renowed instituitions from top 20 world universities, National University of Singapore (NUS) and Nanyang Technological University (NTU). The foreign students occupy more than 60%! Majority of the students are under Singapore Government subsidy! Where the heck in the world can you find such University? :dunno: Not only that, students have job automatically after they graduated. Most of them got blue card after two years of working.
Singapore has always been drawing foreign talents into Singapore. Recently, Minister of Mentor (of Singapore), Mr. Lee K Y., has stressed the importance of foreign immigrants (<~ right click to read news). Singapore's economical infrastructure is totally different from the rest of the countries. It is stable, lowest crime-rate in the entire Southeast Asia region, population's literacy is high, low jobless rate and etc.
Now, Malaysia rule by Malays and their Islamic religion comes first. She welcomes poeple to pump in money but not withdrawal after making profit. In another words, attracts foreign investment with low revenue return. This country is corrupted and everything is slow! (I am not not the only one who says this) Singapore and Malaysia are big contrast with each other! Their political mindset is Islamic and they do not really welcome foreigners stepping into Malaysia, though they never said so. Any good opportunities, priority will be given to the Malays first. Believe it or not, it is up to you. I can bet you with five bullets Russian revolver game.
I know you did not comment about Thailand but I just want to voice out. Kindly don't compare Singapore's expatriates with Thailand. Thailand is different country, fully corrupted and economical unstable. The Thai people riot every now and then. Most foreigners chose to settle there, are for two main reasons, "liberal" and "sex"! Also, there are lots of illegal immigrants in Thailand and they are from ever parts of the world. (Lots of Americans and Eurporeans). Pardon me for sharp and crude statements. It is still a fact.
Do you think am I able to cock up "wonderful" stories without seeing the world?
Yes, I know the difference well.
To get into any Malaysian airline is tough for foreign pilots (especially for second officer), for AirAsia, their intake for foreign direct F.O., a type rating is required and compulsory.
Now, do you know what is Silkair's fleet first of all? Before Silkair is able to throw him online, he must be retrained. CCQ, type-tech and etc. are taxing.
I can tell you SIA (includng Silkair) has a robust training program for all transition! It is the tip-top best in Asia! SIA spent lots of money in training facilities and provide good training program for all pilots.
Since you know the senior pilot from SIA Cargo and Cheif Pilot, didn't they tell you this?
I am pointing you an example the company's financial capability. Everybody knows that Dragon Air is the seconded airline after CX, whether are they expanding or not, we can tell by the recruitment of staffs.
Thank you! You take extra care too!
cadbury
Well-Known Member
Foreign Pilot
SIA is the only airline the world, that really trains foreign pilots. Cathay Pacific started next, but they have strong racial discrimination. Etihad comes much later, and still they are reserving for their own middle-east people.
Sorry! I made a mistake. It was Etihad.
SIA is the only airline the world, that really trains foreign pilots. Cathay Pacific started next, but they have strong racial discrimination. Etihad comes much later, and still they are reserving for their own middle-east people.
swisspilot
Well-Known Member
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
I sometimes travel in dark circles :bandit:
My circles tell me there are two ways to do business in China. One is to pay bribes or the other is to have highly influential friends within the government. Who you have to pay bribes to and how much depends on what kind of business you want to run and how big you want it to be.
The payment of bribes can take many forms. The best, and cheapest, is to have very good looking and intelligent females go around sleeping with highly influential government and mafia figues who can pave the pay for your business to have a shot at being successful. Obviously this is illegal and not looked on well by most people, but hey that's life in modern day China.
Growing up in the USA we have a very naive view of how the world works. Outside of the USA/Canada and Western Europe the world is very very different. Money, Sex, and Power that's what it all boils down to.
Typhoonpilot
swisspilot
Well-Known Member
It is like this in many places if you want to get things done, here in South America things work, they just take forever (most of the time for no reason) so s bit of cash helps to get things going...
cadbury
Well-Known Member
Economic in China and United States
United States are heavily in debt and owing China with billions and zillions of dollars. It is impossible for United States to clear debt and it is forever going to be in debt for China.
Unfortunately, U.S. economic is plunging and that same goes to the aviation industry. Aviation in the United States is very hard to recover! It will NOT going to recover as it is 10-20years ago.
Americans who have not stepped out of U.S. (most of them) are narrow minded, and very naive. They have not exposed to the outside world. Believe it or not, in modern city of most States (in U.S.A.), they are still country bumpkins around! :crazy:
For example, mobile text message (aka SMS) has been widely used in Singapore as far back as 10 years ago from now. 5 years ago, in Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand, sms texting was already extremely popular! Just look at United States 5 years ago, most Americans did even know what is a SIM card! What a joke! It is just only some recent years, 3G mobile network begin to change the lives of Americans.
Well, the Americans settling outside of U.S., seems to have more EQ, sharp, and absorb things fast.
The rich and poverty are a big contrast in China. Those rich ones are real filthy rich!
United States are heavily in debt and owing China with billions and zillions of dollars. It is impossible for United States to clear debt and it is forever going to be in debt for China.
Unfortunately, U.S. economic is plunging and that same goes to the aviation industry. Aviation in the United States is very hard to recover! It will NOT going to recover as it is 10-20years ago.
Yes! I totally agree with this sentence.
Americans who have not stepped out of U.S. (most of them) are narrow minded, and very naive. They have not exposed to the outside world. Believe it or not, in modern city of most States (in U.S.A.), they are still country bumpkins around! :crazy:
For example, mobile text message (aka SMS) has been widely used in Singapore as far back as 10 years ago from now. 5 years ago, in Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand, sms texting was already extremely popular! Just look at United States 5 years ago, most Americans did even know what is a SIM card! What a joke! It is just only some recent years, 3G mobile network begin to change the lives of Americans.
Well, the Americans settling outside of U.S., seems to have more EQ, sharp, and absorb things fast.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Re: Economic in China and United States
With all due respect, please stick to aviation.
The popularity of SMS has nothing to do with the intelligence or worldview of Americans, nor does the adoption of various telecommunications hardware or protocols. We can discuss THOSE in another thread if you want.
With all due respect, please stick to aviation.
The popularity of SMS has nothing to do with the intelligence or worldview of Americans, nor does the adoption of various telecommunications hardware or protocols. We can discuss THOSE in another thread if you want.
cadbury
Well-Known Member
Outside World of United States
I am sorry killybilly!
I am just pointing out a good example. A well advanced country here in United States, we can still find "laid back" people. Many are unexposed to the outside world.
Don't worry, I am still in the correct frequency of United States' aviation channel. :beer:
I am sorry killybilly!
I am just pointing out a good example. A well advanced country here in United States, we can still find "laid back" people. Many are unexposed to the outside world.
Don't worry, I am still in the correct frequency of United States' aviation channel. :beer:
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
You might look at Taiwan as well. There is a newish flight school in Taitung on the southeast coast. Taiwan is light years better than mainland China as a place to live.
http://www.apexflightacademy.com/About/Default.aspx
Not sure how much flying they do and what they pay, but worth a look I suppose.
Typhoonpilot
cadbury
Well-Known Member
There was a PPRuNe discussion thread about APEX flight academy. Not pleasant posts. That thread was deleted by the moderator.
I remember that thread talked about the Chief Pilot, Boris. He is from Croatian Airforce. Not a good guy. Many Apex staffs left because of him.
Boris used to be from Uljin Flight Training Centre for a while and joined the Korean Air. He didn't managed to stay in Korean Air for long. Seems like the Koreans did not like him. The rest of the story, you can imagine yourself.
I have a friend who is working with Apex. I can get latest news if you like. Currently, they do not require Flight Instructor.
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Flynchick
Well-Known Member
My husband flew there for 5 years with one of the Hainan Airlines. We lived in Beijing and Sanya. I was furloughed from a major at the time (as a flight attendant) and he was a senior enough Captain to take a volunteer furlough. I can tell you with first hand knowledge that should not apply directly to the airline. Most expats that are flying in China are using either Park Aviation or Rishworth Aviation. The contracts that expats have are TOTALLY different than the Chinese pilots. Much more money, more time off, safety bonuses, vacation pay etc...The Chinese Nationals don't get this stuff!
Most airlines in China want western Captains. The problem is this....they have tons of Chinese FO's. They want to put a more experienced Captain with their inexperienced FO. When I say inexperienced you will have 2 Chinese FO's in the cockpit. One will be on the jumpseat (asleep)lol...with 250 hours. He will not be allowed to do anything expect learn...Not alot of learning going on because he will be sound asleep. The other one may have 500 hours if you are lucky!
You should undergo your training in America. Air China, Hainan etc...all send their pilot candidates to Denton Texas or Phoenix Arizona for training. There is a school in China but the Chinese company's don't send students there...why should you go! I am sure if you got licensed in China by the CAAC it would probably be a FAA nightmare for you to gain license in the USA.
Most all Chinese airlines hire Western pilots. I can tell you that most of pilots that are being hired has 10,000+ PIC time.
For another bit of information the medical takes 2-3 days. It is not like any other flight physical! It is pure chaos! You must hold a class 1 medical before you can hold a medical in China. To give you a heads up...it you have ever hand anything wrong with you be able to document it. If you have a scar more than a 1/2 inch...be able to document it. You will have cat scans, MRI's of your brain and everything in between. If you bust a medical I seen them fire pilots on the spot! So have another plan!!!!!
Hope this helps. I can tell you it was very hard to adjust to living in China but would do it all over! We learned a lot about ourselves during this process and our view on the world changed!
Good luck!
OOPS...I didn't notice that this thread was so old...but I will leave my information if someone else has an interest in flying in China
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