ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
But but! Accidents don't happen to me, nothing goes wrong, and I can always make it to my destination airport as planned.
But but! Accidents don't happen to me, nothing goes wrong, and I can always make it to my destination airport as planned.
MarkE
Greetings, Professor Falken
As a lowly private pilot and because my instructor and DPE drilled it in to my head to use current materials, I bought one a while back at the local pilot supply store along with new charts. The clerk asked if I had a checkride coming up. Said nope, just wanted current publications. He said, well, don't see that every day.
Which is why I'm sure you carry all paper charts, both VFR and IFR for the entire route of your flight as well as any possible diversions, right? I just don't have that kind of room in the plane.
Anything I need to know about an airport, I can pull up in Jeppview on the EFB in about 5 finger pokes. fltplan.com+Jeppview+Binder 1=Plenty of information.
Between that and the FMS, ATC, other pilots on frequency, etc...I'm not too concerned.
-mini
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
There's a lot of useful info in the A/FD that's NOT on Airnav. Plus I've never been able to get on Airnav in flight...
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Just because there is 5000' of pavement doesn't necessarily mean that all 5000' of it is available in your take off calculations. See below.
Take a look at Naples, FL (KAPF). Runway 14/32 to be specific. The 10-9 doesn't show anything about a limit to the runway distance for take off. Naturally, one would assume that all 5000' is available.
However, if you dig into the A/FD, you will find that the published ASDA (Accelerate-Stop Distance Available) for runway 14 is 4,550' and for runway 32 it is 4,870'. The limiting factor for take off performance calculations for Part 25 aircraft is the shortest of the Take Off Runway Available (TORA), Take Off Distance Available (TODA) or the ASDA.
Old standards required only a 200' Runway Safety Area (RSA) past the end of the runway. In keeping up with ICAO standards, the FAA now requires a minimum of 1000'. What that means is that if there is an obstacle 500' off the end of a 5000' runway, your ASDA is reduced to 4,500'. Again, you can't find this information anywhere other than the A/FD.
I carry what I can, within reason. And to me, the AFD is now reasonable for the above described reasons. No room for it? What are you flying, an F-15? Will Jeppview help you in the cockpit (is it accessible up there at all times?) Again, my situation was unique. For me, the $4 spent on an AFD came in super handy at a time when I needed to make things happen quickly. ATC, other pilots, etc....weren't much help due to limitations outside their control. Instead of depending on outside sources to take care of you, you've got to take care of yourself for when the crutches don't work.
If you're so against a little non-technolgy book, thats up to you. Nothing illegal there. Hate to need it and not have it though.....
Champcar
Well-Known Member
If you have a set of jepps then that's cool. But if someone is just going out there with what they have printed off of fltplan.com then I find that kind of ignorant. Why do pilots feel the need to push these things? I just find the arguement of "this is how the regs are inturpreted" just lazy. Maybe its because they feel bad ass cause they don't carry the green book...the next chuck yegar
CaptQuagmire
Well-Known Member
Another thing I find interesting are how many believe that ATC has instant answers for you. ATC will give all the help they can, but oftentimes, answers to questions might be able to be found by you quicker than by waiting for ATC, as in my case. But pilots are always taught that "just ask ATC, they'll make it happen or have the answer," when that's not always the case.
Here's another wives tale that's taught to pilots: That when you declare an emergency, all traffic is instantly and immediately cleared away for you. Wrong. Yes, you're become an immediate priority when you declare, but that doesn't mean ATC instantly drops all other traffic they have to work, or other planes just freeze in place and you're immediately vectored to the field. More often than not it can happen, but thats not always the case. I saw one time where the controller had to still keep his flow going to landing, but work the IFE aircraft in as best as he can in order to not create a traffic conflict just because there's now an emergency. The pilot involved just couldn't seem to understand that. Even me personally, I was once RTB to a field when WX socked in at my destination an over much of the Korean penninsula. Heading to my 2nd divert (first one was low WX in too, tried an approach there but couldn't break out) over a busy freq, I declare an emergency for fuel (two fuel low warning lights) and get shortly switched to approach by the ROK controller, to where I check in as an emergency and request short vectors to the PAR. I'm informed by the ROK approach controller that he copies the emergency and is unable short vectors and gives me a radial/DME to hold at with a quick EFC, reason being that I'm emergency #6 airborne at the field at that moment who's awaiting the PAR: 3 ahead of me with emergency fuel (F-5/F-16), 1 hung ordnance unknown secure/unsecure (F-4), and 1 with an engine malfunction (F-4). The emergency card wasn't buying me much that night.
So things aren't as easy and simple as taught in day to day world of instruction, where everything fits in a nice, neat canned answer.
Here's another wives tale that's taught to pilots: That when you declare an emergency, all traffic is instantly and immediately cleared away for you. Wrong. Yes, you're become an immediate priority when you declare, but that doesn't mean ATC instantly drops all other traffic they have to work, or other planes just freeze in place and you're immediately vectored to the field. More often than not it can happen, but thats not always the case. I saw one time where the controller had to still keep his flow going to landing, but work the IFE aircraft in as best as he can in order to not create a traffic conflict just because there's now an emergency. The pilot involved just couldn't seem to understand that. Even me personally, I was once RTB to a field when WX socked in at my destination an over much of the Korean penninsula. Heading to my 2nd divert (first one was low WX in too, tried an approach there but couldn't break out) over a busy freq, I declare an emergency for fuel (two fuel low warning lights) and get shortly switched to approach by the ROK controller, to where I check in as an emergency and request short vectors to the PAR. I'm informed by the ROK approach controller that he copies the emergency and is unable short vectors and gives me a radial/DME to hold at with a quick EFC, reason being that I'm emergency #6 airborne at the field at that moment who's awaiting the PAR: 3 ahead of me with emergency fuel (F-5/F-16), 1 hung ordnance unknown secure/unsecure (F-4), and 1 with an engine malfunction (F-4). The emergency card wasn't buying me much that night.
So things aren't as easy and simple as taught in day to day world of instruction, where everything fits in a nice, neat canned answer.
24B yes. Are all your pubs in your lap? There's room between/behind you. Small yes, but not as completely small as a fighter cockpit, and I was able to carry a fairly useful amount.
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
Forgive me, the AFD contains the appropriate chart updates that can also be found in NOTAMs and an FAA inspector will not consider the chart current without those NOTAMs. It's just easier to carry the AFD instead of printing out the NOTAMS.
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
Always loved trying to stuffing the NACO charts for the entire US into those closets!
CaptQuagmire
Well-Known Member
All we can fit between and behind us are the 9 jepp books. I guess since we are ALWAYS a fuel emergency, we're screwed.
All we can fit between and behind us are the 9 jepp books. I guess since we are ALWAYS a fuel emergency, we're screwed.
Well, you didn't mention the 9 Jepp books! Now I'm following you......On a separate note.....what a fun bird that 20-series.
LOL......F-4 and F-16 were just as bad. Least the Hog and the 117 had some semblance of room.
CaptQuagmire
Well-Known Member
Just last week leaving LEX I was indicating 20,000 fpm in my climb. I love it!
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
But the F-series you climbed up a ladder and drop in. I have no misgivings about the lack of space, just from what I've seen at museum displays and what not.
The Lear though...the hunch walk and gymnastics meet to get in the seat. I'm 5'7" on a good day with tall shoes and, while I've never flow it, I've hopped upfront on a couple.
Emergency situations don't care about "within reason" though. So either you're ready for anything and everything or you aren't.
Ever seen the cockpit in a Cj? It's tiny up there. Bring a raft on board to get to the islands and it gets smaller. By the time I put the EFB next to me and all of the binders the FAA says have to be accessible (not in the nose or tail), there's just nowhere left to put a bunch of stuff that's never going to get looked at.
Yes. My battery is almost 2 full hours longer than my fuel supply with the tanks topped...and I can only top with no one on board.....so I'm almost never topped off. Normally when I shut off the motors and the EFB, I have plenty of time left to get online and order a pizza to be at my hotel room waiting for me when I get there.
Ah, ya done said it yourself.
First, it's called resource management. Yes, I can fly my plane single pilot. Yes, I have and will continue to have flights that are done single pilot. No, that does not mean I run the show single pilot when I have another qualified individual up front with me. I manage all of my resources. Sometimes that's ATC or other pilots on frequency or maybe someone listening on an FBO radio.
Just the other day, I called an FBO we were over, had them call dispatch and when we got to our destination, maintenance was waiting with a light bulb for our ice light so we could go out for our next trip without a delay. That's not a crutch, it's called using the tools you have available to you. If I had waited until we got there, I would have been looking at a delay long enough to lose the trip. That's bad for me.
Second, if things are that bad, I have two concerns.
1) Get on the ground safely.
2) Get out of the airplane and as far away as reasonably possible as quickly as possible.
Nowhere in there do I even care to crack open a book or pull out a chart. The ARFF index doesn't matter to me at that point. I want an approach I can find the bottom of or at least an ILS I can follow to a runway and I'd love for ATC to call 911 for me. Get someone headed out that way.
They can. They will. Resource management.
Look, it's not about being "against a little non-technology book". It's about not needing it.
I get the same information and more from what I have on board. A little green book that's 50 days out of date vs an EFB that I just updated 5 days ago? Which source would you rather get information from?
Five or six finger taps and I've gone from looking at a high altitude enroute display to an ILS chart. Three or four more and I'm now looking at the airport directory information...I can tell the pax what hotels they can stay at when we land and get the fire out.
If you want to continue to imply that I'm somehow dangerous or less professional because I don't carry an outdated book on board, be my guest. :dunno:
-mini
