Flight following / Class B clearance

[Chief Captain]

1. Can you enter the Bravo squawking 1200?

2. Can controllers track aircraft squawking 1200?

I'm thinking there was probably nobody else on 1200, so maybe he had no difficulty giving you traffic pointouts.

I'd accept that as clearance to enter the Bravo, but you don't lose any points for remaining clear since you were unsure.

Clearly this guy wasn't at his best when that happened, but I'd give him a free pass since he was probably grumpy because he had to spend New Year's Eve at work.

FWIW, last time I was in Tampa's airspace, the guy who was controlling was VERY grumpy too. Wonder if it's the same guy...

 

[boondr]

1. Can you enter the Bravo squawking 1200?

2. Can controllers track aircraft squawking 1200?

I'm thinking there was probably nobody else on 1200, so maybe he had no difficulty giving you traffic pointouts.

I'd accept that as clearance to enter the Bravo, but you don't lose any points for remaining clear since you were unsure.

Clearly this guy wasn't at his best when that happened, but I'd give him a free pass since he was probably grumpy because he had to spend New Year's Eve at work.

FWIW, last time I was in Tampa's airspace, the guy who was controlling was VERY grumpy too. Wonder if it's the same guy...

1. Yes, with a clearance

2. yes we can even track primary only targets

However I sincerely doubt this controller did more than look at his scope and see one target out there. All in all it was horrible service from a lazy controller who would have had to pay the piper big time if something had happened to "Nxx390"

Good job Rd757 of making sure you dotted the "i" and crossed the "t" a lazy bastard like that would have been first to pull out the book to blame the pilot for not recieving a proper clearance had you t-boned an airliner coming off TPA or PIE.

Tip: Say "Nxx390 (position) request clearance into TPA Class Bravo" as opposed to "flight following" that way if he/she replies "proceed as requested" that is your clearance and all you have to say is "was that for Nxx390?"----"Affirmative", now it is on him to make sure you don't go somewhere you're not supposed to be. You could do a flyby of the tower and give him a middle finger because all you did is request a bravo and he gave it with no restrictions.

Safe Flying

 

[drunkenbeagle]

What do you guys think, or what would you have done?

Thanks,

I would have asked for clearance into the Bravo if that's what I wanted.

Tampa is not busy at night. And you'll pretty much get vectors into the Bravo here 24 hours a day anyway if you ask.

Instead of asking for flight following, ask for clearance into the bravo. Even better, tell them the heading and altitude you want when you call - they aren't mind readers. "1,000 for 3,000, direct VNC, request flight following and bravo clearance" would solve both problems.

The controllers aren't playing a game trying to make you screw up. If they shorten your tailnumber, fine. No reason to make a big deal out of it.

Should you get a full tailnumber readback on intial contact? Sure, but you were probably the only aircraft he was working, so I doubt it mattered much.

 

[skidz]

controllers are people, pilots are people, procedures are followed or maybe bent a bit, and its all good ...

until something happens that is...

then, oh boy...it's his fault/her fault...should've done this or that...

 

[Sunburn]

IMHO, I would stay out of the class B airspace without a clearance if I've strictly asked for FF, and as a controller I would expect the same from the pilot. I will say that the controller you are talking about (a man i do NOT know) was forgetting that we now work for the friendlier, cuddlelier? FAA that is customer oriented. Overall, good call on covering yourself and I'm sorry that you have to deal with a controller like this.

 

[BMW>PILOT2]

Ryan, You were there, nobody else. everyone has a input, shoulda, woulda, coulda.. nope i would have done exactly what you did. I would fly with you any day. take care.

 

[Ajax]

I always try make sure I hear the words "Cleared into class bravo"

A few months ago I was flying into the DFW area at about 5000', he gave me a heading that would have me enter class B a little earlier than I expected so I called up and asked if I was cleared into class B and he responded with "No, thanks for asking, but I need you to get down to 3000' and we'll get you inside class B when I get a chance."

After a while he cleared me into it and stated that there was a medical emergency on an inbound American flight and they were working to kind of scatter some traffic to clear the area for him. There was a moment there for him where he was pretty bogged down and I am very happy that I asked about my clearance(or lack thereof).

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

If you are given a heading but not an altitude, and that heading takes you into Bravo, and the controller is too busy talking to other aircraft, do you just turn away? Would that action violate the FAR that says you must follow your last assigned ATC clearance(91.123)?

Here's your answer:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/2010/Doremire.pdf

 

[chuckles1225]

Here's your answer:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/2010/Doremire.pdf

Wow, I have always interpreted this situation the same as previous posters (you only need a hdg and alt assignment). Good post.

 

[cmill]

Here's your answer:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/2010/Doremire.pdf

So, which one is gonna hold more weight when you're standing in front of the judge? The interpretation, or the precedent? I have a feeling that half the time 100% of the judges are going to go with the precedent.