FlexJet

That's good to know. NJ's minimums are considerably higher than I am right now (I'm closer to FJ's mins - I have a little less than half the ME time that NJ wants) but I realized I knew so little about Fractionals that I'd be doing myself a disservice without additional research.

Can you elaborate on what's missing from the compensation package on APC? It seemed fairly detailed, but I have no frame of reference.

You're right -- it is fairly detailed. But how it all adds up was something that surprised me after getting here. For starters, the pay scales are a little dated on APC, so increase year 1 base by about 4-5k depending on schedule type. This base increases twice per year - 1) upon reaching your date of hire, you move to the next service year pay band and 2) again at the end of the year (December) when the negotiated graduated annual increase kicks in (currently in place through 2025). So, for example, I was hired in the month of October, so I get a raise in October for service year and December for contract.

FDP (Flight Duty Pay) can be semi-difficult to budget for, as the amount of flying you do in a tour can vary with some factors. Demand is crazy right now, so if you get a plane that doesn't break and neither of you fatigue, you can rack some FDP $ up. I'm using $40k as a budget for my FDP and I'm on pace for that so far this year. You can then throw another 10-15k of soft pay on top of those numbers for all the various types of OT and standby pay you'll receive. I don't consider per diem as income (and you shouldn't either) but rarely should you ever be spending your per diem on food. You are allotted two catering meals a day with quite a bit to chose from. So, take base salary of the schedule that would interest you, add 35-40k for FDP, and 10-15k for other soft pay and you'll get into the ballpark of what you'd earn. I'm on the CC72 and picking up a few extended days here and there, so I'm roughly on pace for 130k or so year 1. I have friends who are doing the 7 on 7 off schedule and they'll likely be around 110. The Challenger and Latitude airframes seem to be the real powerhouse FDP machines. They're have a high cycle per break ratio and the owners love them. Particularly unique to the Latitude is it has decently long legs, but isn't particularly fast, which equates to more flight duty pay.

As for the whole majors vs 91/91K/135 thing.. As I said in an earlier post, it really isn't a compelling argument to make if you're solely looking at hours worked for money received. You'll work less for more money over a career at a major. Fact.

I'm mid-late 30s and this is a second career for me. I always envisioned myself as an airline pilot, but the country had just fallen off the Covid cliff when I wanted to join the regional ranks. So, I ended up here and am very happy so far. It just feels more appropriate to get somewhere where I can build seniority. It's entirely possible I could go to the regionals and be one of those people who never get called.

Ultimately, I never want to commute and there's a value my wife and I have placed on being able to live exactly where we want. She does something that requires state by state licensure, so bouncing around a bunch of bases as I transition from junior regional FO to junior regional CA to senior regional CA to junior FO at a major to junior CA just seems harder for us as a married team. Everyone's mileage, circumstances and motivations are different, though.

I chose NJ over Flex, Airshare, WheelsUp, XO, etc., but I'm not very tribal about these things. I *do* value the transparency of knowing how/when/why things happen at NJ with the union negotiated contract as it relates to my pay and career progression. It's also nice being able to tell an owner/scheduler/dispatcher "No" (respectfully) without fear of losing my job.

Please ask any other questions you have or DM me. Happy to help anyone who is interested. It seems like it's a great time to come aboard.
 
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Thanks - I don't think that I could get on with them with these times, but it's something to think about. I know a lot more about airline flying than I do fractional/charter, so this is very much exploratory and I appreciate the insights I've received here and elsewhere. I'm a bit older than your typical aspiring professional pilot, and a career changer at that, so the things that I value might be a little different than some others.

I'm not quite in a position to leave my current career but I'm getting considerably closer, and I'm only a year behind my original "plan" so it's going all right so far.

Appreciate the information. Thank you.

Something else I should add. I've been through the gauntlet with this career. After flying 91, then 135, then 121, then 91/135, and now 91, I can not imagine working for a fractional or doing retail charter for a career. I suggested going to Flexjet simply to get your hours up. It is just too much work to think about staying forever. Oh and 8/6 (or 7/7 if you can find it) sounds great, but it is exhausting. If I wanted to fly multiple legs a day with short overnights, I would take the extra pay that 121 provides. But I value my time at home. And I value being challenged. And I value the relationship that I have with my coworkers and passengers. Those things keep me very happy staying 91.

If you think you may prefer 91/135, Flexjet is a great way to get your feet wet. If you hate it, you'll get the hours to skip the regionals. But if you find that you really like the flying, but hate the schedule and daily grind of the fractionals, you'll have the total time fairly quickly to move on to a good managed account or a corporate position. That's where the private side can really shine.
 
Something else I should add. I've been through the gauntlet with this career. After flying 91, then 135, then 121, then 91/135, and now 91, I can not imagine working for a fractional or doing retail charter for a career. I suggested going to Flexjet simply to get your hours up. It is just too much work to think about staying forever. Oh and 8/6 (or 7/7 if you can find it) sounds great, but it is exhausting. If I wanted to fly multiple legs a day with short overnights, I would take the extra pay that 121 provides. But I value my time at home. And I value being challenged. And I value the relationship that I have with my coworkers and passengers. Those things keep me very happy staying 91.

If you think you may prefer 91/135, Flexjet is a great way to get your feet wet. If you hate it, you'll get the hours to skip the regionals. But if you find that you really like the flying, but hate the schedule and daily grind of the fractionals, you'll have the total time fairly quickly to move on to a good managed account or a corporate position. That's where the private side can really shine.

I agree with this. Expect to be run ragged any retail charter operation. You will be flying multiple leg days and have short overnights due to demand being high and supply being low. You will likely need to take this step before finding/networking into a decent 91 gig.
 
Folks - I really appreciate both the utility and civility in this thread when so many haven't stayed that way - thank you. @BaronPete I particularly appreciate the supplemental detail on NJ - explains quite a bit, so thanks for that.

I've heard a lot about how 135/fractional operations really can flog you. What Pete said was interesting....a lot of the clients don't want to fly early or really late, so I'm kinda scratching my head about short overnights.

Do the fractional guys have to do the shopping/catering stocking? I have a friend who has called me to chat from Costco while he was shopping for the right flavor of Capri Suns for the client's kid in the 91 operation he was flying. I couldn't decide if I liked that idea or not.
 
There are some of us that have priorities and values that may offset pure financial considerations. Corporate flying is a different beast than 121, and for some people the benefits out weigh the differences in take-home pay. I have never made the kind of coin major airline pilots make, yet here I am getting close to retirement, I have the things that I want and make me happy, we travel when we want, we have more than enough in retirement funds and assets to last. Bottom line - I have zero regrets for the choices I made.

This is, I think, the hardest part for me right now - figuring out exactly what I value the most.

It's very alluring to rationalize potential negatives when you're walking/running away from a career, so I'm trying to frame it not as running AWAY from something, but rather running TO something. That framing helps me look at things a little more objectively. It's very hard to assign a particular value set to a variable I don't really understand. It's not like I'm sitting here with a spreadsheet, but I'm having to be really honest with myself about the things I want, and it's really, really, hard sometimes to not get the answers I think I want, if that makes any sense.
 
Folks - I really appreciate both the utility and civility in this thread when so many haven't stayed that way - thank you. @BaronPete I particularly appreciate the supplemental detail on NJ - explains quite a bit, so thanks for that.

I've heard a lot about how 135/fractional operations really can flog you. What Pete said was interesting....a lot of the clients don't want to fly early or really late, so I'm kinda scratching my head about short overnights.

Do the fractional guys have to do the shopping/catering stocking? I have a friend who has called me to chat from Costco while he was shopping for the right flavor of Capri Suns for the client's kid in the 91 operation he was flying. I couldn't decide if I liked that idea or not.

Client flying varies. They fly early. They fly late. They do red eyes. That's the beauty of private jets. They leave when they want to.

Most of the fractionals have stock storage at the big hubs i.e...Teterboro, West Palm, Van Nuys and etc...

Attention to detail and giving a unique service is what we do in corporate aviation. It's way easy these days with services such as amazon and instacart though.

Edited to add:
A good flight attendant will make life way easier when it comes to customer service!
 
I enjoyed the passenger interaction and the chance to you know "exceed expectations" (or let's say MEET much more often than I would have expected) and all of that.

I didn't particularly mind loading bags and pouring drinks. Born servant, I guess.

I wasn't especially wild about driving around in my off time trying to find French Architectural Digest in like Plattsburg in February. That's probably another advertisement for a Frac vs. traditional Charter. Or having an F/A.

That said, I don't think I would have enjoyed 135 half as much if I'd consistently been as busy as it sounds like everyone is now. A week with say 5 or 6 transcons and I was DONE. That didn't happen so much back then, but now...
 
My worst day flying 121, even at a regional, was still better than most days flying 135/91. I used to be that “I’ll never fly 121” guy, but kick myself for not doing it sooner.

Same for me. I went to NetJets in 2015, left in 2017 for a 121 major and haven't looked back since. I don’t miss it at all and I wish I would have gone sooner.

My first week on IOE at NetJets I knew I made a huge mistake. The work was literally non stop. 3-5 legs a day for 7 days with 25 changes to the schedule per day. It was exhausting an unrelenting.
 
Same for me. I went to NetJets in 2015, left in 2017 for a 121 major and haven't looked back since. I don’t miss it at all and I wish I would have gone sooner.

My first week on IOE at NetJets I knew I made a huge mistake. The work was literally non stop. 3-5 legs a day for 7 days with 25 changes to the schedule per day. It was exhausting an unrelenting.

I mean if a 121 major called, I would almost certainly go and figure out the logistics of my wife’s career afterwards (and she would agree), but I don’t see that happening — at least anytime soon. I feel like not having gone to the regionals pretty much shut that door.
 
I mean if a 121 major called, I would almost certainly go and figure out the logistics of my wife’s career afterwards (and she would agree), but I don’t see that happening — at least anytime soon. I feel like not having gone to the regionals pretty much shut that door.

I had never flown 121 before I left for Virgin. Even with the crap going on at AS right now, I wouldn’t change my decision to leave NetJets for the world. Actually I would have left sooner if I could. You can absolutely go to a major from a fractional. Everyone is desperate.
 
I mean if a 121 major called, I would almost certainly go and figure out the logistics of my wife’s career afterwards (and she would agree), but I don’t see that happening — at least anytime soon. I feel like not having gone to the regionals pretty much shut that door.

You'd be surprised at the kind of movement happening right now. Multiple colleagues of mine have been receiving calls from an Air Line that they thought they'd never hear from. Many have no 121 time, a few are even less than 3k total time with no TPIC time.
 
All I know is that I have a buddy that is drinking the koolaid over at flex currently. Not sure how happy he will be but he is liking the credit card...

That said, FlexJet does not have union protection and from what I understand will "upgrade" you to larger aircraft/pay based on merit rather than seniority. They could end up being awesome but they do have an atmosphere that can easily be abused if they so choose.
 
Folks - I really appreciate both the utility and civility in this thread when so many haven't stayed that way - thank you. @BaronPete ………
……Do the fractional guys have to do the shopping/catering stocking? I have a friend who has called me to chat from Costco while he was shopping for the right flavor of Capri Suns for the client's kid in the 91 operation he was flying. I couldn't decide if I liked that idea or not.
I just want to address this last part from a Part 91 perspective. I had several guest (this is the way I refer to the passengers in “my” plane…..;)), that liked different drinks, snacks, gum/breath mints. During one of my first flights, I passed a note pad and a pen back and asked them to write down their preferences. Don't wait for them to ask you to get certain items on the plane, make it a mission to seek out the information. After I had their preferences, I made sure what they wanted was on the plane when they were on board; and YES, I did the shopping. They noticed and continued to notice as we traveled together. I am confident that things like this are why I received the bonuses and raises that I did.. The shopping is the easy part and doesn’t really take that much out of my month. Think of the shopping no different than the cursory tasks at any other job you’ve ever had.

The one thing I despised was the cleaning up after all the “hamster-style” eating people! I dId it, but it’s not my favorite thing!

As @KLB posted, the convenience of the plane is EXACTLY why they have it. For Part 135 sh….stuff, keep in mind that the passengers are customers. You can’t “Spirit” them when it comes to flights!
 
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I just want to address this last part from a Part 91 perspective. I had several guest (this is the way I refer to the passengers in “my” plahe…..;)), that liked different drinks, snacks, gum/breath mints. During one of my first flights, I passed a note pad and a pen back and asked them to write down their preferences. Don't wait for them to ask you to get certain items on the plane, make it a mission to seek out the information. After I had their preferences, I made sure what they wanted was on the plane when they were on board; and YES, I did the shopping. They noticed and continued to notice as we traveled together. I am confident that things like this are why I received the bonuses and raises that I did.. The shopping is the easy part and doesn’t really take that much out of my month. Think of the shopping no different than the cursory tasks at any other job you’ve ever had.

The one thing I despised was the cleaning up after all the “hamster-style” eating people! I dId it, but it’s not my favorite thing!

As @KLB posted, the convenience of the plane is EXACTLY why they have it. For Part 135 sh….stuff, keep in mind that the passengers are customers. You can’t “Spirit” them when it comes to flights!

Well said @dustoff17

The shopping is definitely an easy task!
 
I just want to address this last part from a Part 91 perspective. I had several guest (this is the way I refer to the passengers in “my” plahe…..;)), that liked different drinks, snacks, gum/breath mints. During one of my first flights, I passed a note pad and a pen back and asked them to write down their preferences. Don't wait for them to ask you to get certain items on the plane, make it a mission to seek out the information. After I had their preferences, I made sure what they wanted was on the plane when they were on board; and YES, I did the shopping. They noticed and continued to notice as we traveled together. I am confident that things like this are why I received the bonuses and raises that I did.. The shopping is the easy part and doesn’t really take that much out of my month. Think of the shopping no different than the cursory tasks at any other job you’ve ever had.

The one thing I despised was the cleaning up after all the “hamster-style” eating people! I dId it, but it’s not my favorite thing!

As @KLB posted, the convenience of the plane is EXACTLY why they have it. For Part 135 sh….stuff, keep in mind that the passengers are customers. You can’t “Spirit” them when it comes to flights!

It all makes sense. And I realize now that when I posted about "not knowing if I liked that idea or not" that it came off kinda snobby. Didn't mean it that way but can totally see how it reads. The person in question I was speaking to wasn't particularly happy about that situation, and I was like, "why not just Amazon it to <location of airplane> and save some time?"

I get that at certain levels that it's really about customer experience - totally understandable and I'd have zero problem with it if it was simply part of the job.

I am GUESSING, however, that that sort of thing is more common at 91 operations than in a fractional 135 op? I honestly don't know.
 
It all makes sense. And I realize now that when I posted about "not knowing if I liked that idea or not" that it came off kinda snobby. Didn't mean it that way but can totally see how it reads. The person in question I was speaking to wasn't particularly happy about that situation, and I was like, "why not just Amazon it to <location of airplane> and save some time?"

I get that at certain levels that it's really about customer experience - totally understandable and I'd have zero problem with it if it was simply part of the job.

I am GUESSING, however, that that sort of thing is more common at 91 operations than in a fractional 135 op? I honestly don't know.
It didn’t seem “snobby” to me, just that you were surprised that the pilot does that. It’s almost paramount in Part 91.

In the ONLY 135 I’ve done, I didn’t really care what the passenger wanted or needed AND our medical crew members stocked the plane!! :)
 
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