Flap retraction on the runway

Mike H said:
Honestly, I've never thought this was a sensible argument.
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I think it's less sensible when people don't think it's a sensible argument and still we find people that suck the gear up from under them while rolling out because they thought it was the flap handle.

...only to tell the chief pilot that the gear collapsed.

...only for mx to find out the true story. That the pilot selected gear up when he was trying to clean the airplane up.

-mini
 
Actually just had this conversation today about whether or not to retract flaps in a caravan on a grass runway.
 
mikecweb said:
Actually just had this conversation today about whether or not to retract flaps in a caravan on a grass runway.
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Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to land the caravan on grass. That said, I used to put the mains down and I always retracted the flaps.
 
minitour said:
Max power and start flying again. Then start getting rid of the drag.

...unless your aircraft has a different procedure. I'm sure some do.

-mini
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Even in my airplane where flaps 45 is like a garage door hanging out there, that's what we do. Then again, 650hp helps.

Touch and goes...it's obviously not dangerous to clean the airplane up during a touch and go, but there's always the potential for grabbing the wrong handle. During training events at my company, the check airman in the right seat will retract the flaps for you during a touch and go. The reason being, of course, they don't want you to wreck up a perfectly good airplane by getting rushed and grabbing the wrong handle.
 
jspeed87 said:
naw, you don't want to develop bad habits. What if one day you reach for that gear handle instead of the flaps in a multi? After you exit the runway, then you clean up the bird. Well, anyway, this was how I was taught.
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I was wondering why it took till post 15 for this reason to come up. To me, that is the most important reason not to retract flaps while on the runway. You need to be especially careful doing touch and go's
 
dumping the flaps is the first thing ive ever done after the wheels touch in every plane ive ever flown. Its so ingrained in my head that im not sure i could ever not do it, most of the time i dont even realize ive retracted them. Not saying itas right or wrong, its just how i roll. :bandit:
 
cmill said:
dumping the flaps is the first thing ive ever done after the wheels touch in every plane ive ever flown. Its so ingrained in my head that im not sure i could ever not do it, most of the time i dont even realize ive retracted them. Not saying itas right or wrong, its just how i roll. :bandit:
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You're dangerous! But I thought you splash down?:confused:
 
mshunter said:
You're dangerous! But I thought you splash down?:confused:
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Good point, even on the water you retract the flaps as soon as "splash down." Its just as, if not more important than flaps on the land. If we're coming into our base, we usually land, and stay "on the step," (basically a high speed taxi on water.) Rule of thumb is, if the plane is on the step, it will fly, so the last thing you want are flaps in while just trying to taxi.

On a side note, we do things with flaps in float planes you wouldnt dare dream of doing in land planes. Lets just say flap brackets are a hot commodity around here.
 
Touch the brakes on a Mooney with the flaps down and you're going to look down the runway out of the pilots side window as you go sliding off the side under the right set of circumstances.

I teach people to swiftly, but not rapidly, to retract the flaps after landing so you can get more weight on the wheels and therefore more braking authority. The trick is, as Pat mentioned, directional control. You can brake with flaps down or up, it's up to you, but I like what I like based on my personal experience so I teach that.

I think shock cooling is bunk but my company wants us to stage cool and I do it because I like being employed.
 
bksslc said:
What is the proper procedure as far as retracting flaps upon landing and why wait until clear of the runway as opposed to doing so on rollout?
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Sounds like high wing vs low wing. In a low wing raising the flaps on the runway to increase weight on the tires is common. Some aircraft, like an Aztec, both levers are near one another and I was taught to verify "FLAPS" before pulling up on the handle.
 
minitour said:
I think it's less sensible when people don't think it's a sensible argument and still we find people that suck the gear up from under them while rolling out because they thought it was the flap handle.

...only to tell the chief pilot that the gear collapsed.

...only for mx to find out the true story. That the pilot selected gear up when he was trying to clean the airplane up.

-mini
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Which is why I said

If you can't instantly tell by feel which handle you've got your hand on, you probably shouldn't be at the controls of anything, let alone an airplane
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And since you bring the mechanic into it, whose fault is it that the squat switch didn't work as is was supposed to? :D
 
esa17 said:
Touch the brakes on a Mooney with the flaps down and you're going to look down the runway out of the pilots side window as you go sliding off the side under the right set of circumstances.

I teach people to swiftly, but not rapidly, to retract the flaps after landing so you can get more weight on the wheels and therefore more braking authority. The trick is, as Pat mentioned, directional control. You can brake with flaps down or up, it's up to you, but I like what I like based on my personal experience so I teach that.

I think shock cooling is bunk but my company wants us to stage cool and I do it because I like being employed.
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The IO520F in cold weather is a little finickey, if you take and go from full power to idle power in one movement it'll cough and sputter at you. I like stage cooling the IO520F and the IO540K1A5 because it's smoother, there's no seriously rapid decelerations, and the passengers get a nice comfortable ride.
 
Basically, in 121 don't touch anything until you are off the runway. We had a couple of our guys land and the FO yanked the flaps up before exiting the runway and there just so happen to be a fed in the back. Needless to say they both go new aholes for that one.

GA, you can do whatever you want. I pull them up on the C170 if I am operating on short grass strips. Don't use them at all for pavement so no need in talking about it.
 
ppragman said:
The IO520F in cold weather is a little finickey, if you take and go from full power to idle power in one movement it'll cough and sputter at you. I like stage cooling the IO520F and the IO540K1A5 because it's smoother, there's no seriously rapid decelerations, and the passengers get a nice comfortable ride.
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Passenger comfort I'm onboard with but thats not the kool-aide we're given. As long as you plan about 7 minutes ahead I don't think there is ever a reason rapid power changes anyway.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
Flying a Mooney it seems like it is also necessary. But maybe I just suck.
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It's been too long since I have touch a 172. But in my 121 and 135 ops it has been drilled home you don't do anything until clear of the runway and then its "Flaps UP, after landing checklist". The FAA has even told us if you back taxing on a runway after landing they don't want the check list run. You're attention needs to be focused on clearing the runway and looking for traffic.
 
Hi!

At my US airline, we would automatically fail a checkride if we did ANYTHING on the runway other than taxi off, and talk to ATC!!!

cliff
LFW
 
Don't make configuration changes until you're off the runway.

You are extremely unlikely (to the point of probably not being able to find it) find an air carrier that teaches you to make configuration changes while you're on the runway.

Open and shut.
 
As I wrote in another thread...

excerpt from operations manual:

"This checklist is called for by the Captain and accomplished by the First Officer when clear of all active runways."
 
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