First year FO -- Need some career direction please
- Thread starter BoDEAN
- Start date
Cruise
Well-Known Member
There was a guy in my intial class who'd left Eagle for Colgan. As such, he went from the Jungle Jet to the Saab.....don't think they even asked him to do a sim ride......they said "you're hired.....show up to class on XX." That's been a little over a year ago. I think he's happy w/ his decision so far. He's held a line since his second month w/ the company and upgrade is in the near future. (DISCLAIMER: Obviously, upgrade is subject to change w/ the health of the airline/ industry) Advancement in this industry, more or less, revolves around Turbine PIC.....Not Jet PIC. The sooner you have it, the sooner you'll be more marketable for career advancement.
Like was said in previous posts, only YOU know what you want out of the future. Many have offered up opinions and they are all valid. It's up to you to wade through 'em and decide how you want to achieve your future goals.
Hope it all works out for you with your decisions!
Like was said in previous posts, only YOU know what you want out of the future. Many have offered up opinions and they are all valid. It's up to you to wade through 'em and decide how you want to achieve your future goals.
Hope it all works out for you with your decisions!
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
My question for you
Why did you apply to Eagle in the first place? This isn't a slam on you or the company, but there must be a reason you wanted to work there. You knew about the upgrade times and the pay, so what drove you there?
I'd also leave if I were you, unless you want to be a lifer at AE.
Why did you apply to Eagle in the first place? This isn't a slam on you or the company, but there must be a reason you wanted to work there. You knew about the upgrade times and the pay, so what drove you there?
I'd also leave if I were you, unless you want to be a lifer at AE.
skydog
New Member
If you are going to make a lateral move, now is the time to do it. You've gotten by on that first year pay this long, you can do it for another year at another airline.
That being said, why exactly are you considering moving on?
In my experience: (Trans States, Piedmont, Mesaba, AWAC), regional airlines are pretty much all the same. The pay is the same, give or take $1000 or so)
The schedule is the same. It sucks at the beginning, but gets better with seniority. The equipment is the same. (ERJs and CRJs) After a 6 months and few hundred hours you won't really care what kind of plane you're in anyway.
In short, the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence. The only real differece between the regional airlines, is where they base their pilots. So, if you are contemplating a change, I say figure out where and how you want to live your life, and pursue an airline that is compatible with that.
As far as upgrade time goes: Yes PIC time is important. But once you get your 1000 PIC, that's it. You don't need to worry about it anymore. You'll be as qualified as you need to be for a job at the majors. Do you really want to make decisions that will have lifelong consequences based on a short term gain? Add to this the fact that most of the majors aren't hiring right now, and won't be for a while, and it kind of takes away the urgency to get the PIC time. Yes the money is nice, but it's not like the difference between night and day. It is simply the difference between living in a small house or a medium house, or driving a used Civic vs a new one.
The other thing I have notice about regionals is that, at one time or another, they all have their "day in the sun". Every single one of them was "the airline of choice" for a short period of time. And every single one of them got their ass kicked later. Just look at my resume: Piedmont was considered one of the leading regionals out there. But then the RJ came along, they didn't get on the bandwagon, and got left behind. Back in '97 and '98, Mesaba was the place to be, growing like wildfire and getting AVRO's. Now they'll be lucky to be in business a year from now. AWAC was the leading regional in the United stable. I met many pilots who had left AE for AWAC because it was "better". But it turned out they were wrong. AWAC cost too much, got booted out, and had to pony up $125 million just to fly for USAir. Today's darling's are tomorrow's has-beens. The pendulum is always swinging.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
That being said, why exactly are you considering moving on?
In my experience: (Trans States, Piedmont, Mesaba, AWAC), regional airlines are pretty much all the same. The pay is the same, give or take $1000 or so)
The schedule is the same. It sucks at the beginning, but gets better with seniority. The equipment is the same. (ERJs and CRJs) After a 6 months and few hundred hours you won't really care what kind of plane you're in anyway.
In short, the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence. The only real differece between the regional airlines, is where they base their pilots. So, if you are contemplating a change, I say figure out where and how you want to live your life, and pursue an airline that is compatible with that.
As far as upgrade time goes: Yes PIC time is important. But once you get your 1000 PIC, that's it. You don't need to worry about it anymore. You'll be as qualified as you need to be for a job at the majors. Do you really want to make decisions that will have lifelong consequences based on a short term gain? Add to this the fact that most of the majors aren't hiring right now, and won't be for a while, and it kind of takes away the urgency to get the PIC time. Yes the money is nice, but it's not like the difference between night and day. It is simply the difference between living in a small house or a medium house, or driving a used Civic vs a new one.
The other thing I have notice about regionals is that, at one time or another, they all have their "day in the sun". Every single one of them was "the airline of choice" for a short period of time. And every single one of them got their ass kicked later. Just look at my resume: Piedmont was considered one of the leading regionals out there. But then the RJ came along, they didn't get on the bandwagon, and got left behind. Back in '97 and '98, Mesaba was the place to be, growing like wildfire and getting AVRO's. Now they'll be lucky to be in business a year from now. AWAC was the leading regional in the United stable. I met many pilots who had left AE for AWAC because it was "better". But it turned out they were wrong. AWAC cost too much, got booted out, and had to pony up $125 million just to fly for USAir. Today's darling's are tomorrow's has-beens. The pendulum is always swinging.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I disagree: 1st year / 2nd year pay
TSA $22 / $25
PDT $24 / $28
Mesaba $24 / $28
AWAC $24 / $35
There's a significant difference in 2nd year pay. $7/hr @ 1200 hours a year = $8,400. $10/hr = $12,000. All for doing essentially the same job. I wouldn't look "just" at first year pay IMO, one needs to look beyond it. Their first year pay is the same but unless this guy intends to stay at each regional just one year he should consider longevity pay as well (IMO).
Eagle's pay rate isn't "bad", it's just the upgrade time is so long that personally if I was at eagle, and single, I would SERIOUSLY consider getting say ATP mins, 2000 TT, 1000 multi and going to one of those detroit car freight carriers that runs falcons and lears (with the time you can upgrade quickly, as they don't fly all that much). Pay is around $40k to start as an FO. I hear USA Jet has an upgrade of around 12-18 months in the falcon. It would suck for 2-3 years but you can at least check the PIC box and maybe land a sweet corporate gig once you get some time in type. Beats being on reserve for 3-4 years. That being said, you'd pretty much HAVE to be single. Living on a 20 minute call-out=no cool.
skydog
New Member
Oh, and one more, one more thing. There are other ways to get PIC time. For instance, have you considered becoming an instructor? One of my cohorts at AWAC was a mechanic with a CPL and multi-rating. But he knew the BAe146 like the back of his hand. So when the need arose, the company tapped him to be an instructor, and typed him on the airplane. Dude didn't have 1500 hours or an ATP, which meant he couldn't fly the line, but he could fly repo's and test hops, which he did every chance he got. When the word came down that the 146's were going away, he flew these kinds of trips every time he could, got his 1500, got his ATP, and then transistioned to Captain on the CRJ.
Granted this is probably a rare case. But I think that if you were to become a systems or simulator instructor, you could probably get typed, and then at least start logging Part 91 PIC turbine. More food for thought.
Granted this is probably a rare case. But I think that if you were to become a systems or simulator instructor, you could probably get typed, and then at least start logging Part 91 PIC turbine. More food for thought.
RPM
Well-Known Member
1000 PIC isn't what it used to be. More like 2000+ nowadays to be competitive.
Southwest is 1300 PIC now MINIMUM.....sucks for all the guys that just got there 1000 PIC, thought they were golden then jumped ship.
skydog
New Member
The big difference is that those pay rates are for turboprop equipment, whereas AWAC is all CRJ
But, putting that aside for the moment, look at the other three. Only about a $2700 dollar difference, or about $225 a month before taxes, between the three of them. Is a $150-$175 a month net really worth jumping ship for?
Besides, AWAC is the exception, not the norm. Remember, as we have already said, AWAC got kicked out of United because their costs were too high. They'll be safe from getting kicked out of USAIR only as long as USAIR stays out of bankruptcy. If they go back in, either that pay rate, or AWAC will be gone.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Well, since mesaba has one FO payrate for their avros, crjs, and saabs, I used that. I took the payrate from the ERJ-145 FO pay scale at TSA. PDT is tp, but they are also one of the highest paid TP outfits (sans horizon) and they fly the 50 seat Dash 8's.
I agree. Use the time at eagle to pick where you want to go. People that don't have any experience go where they can, then use time they build and the 121 experience to go to a carrier that is better. Obviously he wouldn't jump ship to go to TSA or Mesaba, that would just be stupid. I'm guessing skywest would be the best choice, with a junior ORD base. Their second year pay ($35/hr) is also up there.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Yea we need to know the buzzwords to get the application noticed!!
The cool thing is when I walked in to speak to his father, who was the hiring manager for Souternjets Innanashnul before retiring, he actually showed me what he'd download off of UPAS.
Minimums are one thing, but the actual 'template' of which an airline will download from the database is something else.
So CAL may say "these are our minimums" but our guest will know EXACTLY what they're looking for.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I was talking to a senior eagle FO the other month (senior as in #1 in domcile) and this person was saying that whenever captain spots are opened up mainline guys end up taking the slots.
This person had be awarded CA slots on and off again for the last few years (currently 8 year FO) but never made it to training without a mainline guy flowing back and taking her spot.
GaTechKid
Well-Known Member
A couple weeks ago I was in the same position as you BoDean. 10 months into the first regional gig and debating leaving. The difference is that the place I came from has < 2 year upgrades. I chose to sacrifice the fast upgrade for a jump in quality of life. Many items factored into my decision. If I stayed, I would have to spend 4-6 years in a region of the country where I knew no-one and where my wife and I did not want to live. Since the wife is grounded in the midwest at the moment in grad school I am condemned to be a commuter for the next 3 years. My previous regional is built around day trips and outstation basing meaning, after a 2-3 leg commute, I would be back in a dirty crashpad every night and making zero extra income. With my relatively low total time (1200), I would most likely be stuck in a turboprop running the same route for 2 FO years and 3 CA years until I built up a competitive total time. I chose to sit right seat in a jet for the majority of that time.
The 2 crucial questions that I asked myself were 1) Am I happy with the current lifestyle I'm living and the future lifestyle I would have?, and 2) If upgrades stopped and I was stuck at this company for 6+ years would I enjoy it?
My answer was NO!! to both. Now I get to be based in a region my family is from, where I get to ski on REAL snow, and where I can fly fish without the fear of snagging my line in a pine tree(s).
The 2 crucial questions that I asked myself were 1) Am I happy with the current lifestyle I'm living and the future lifestyle I would have?, and 2) If upgrades stopped and I was stuck at this company for 6+ years would I enjoy it?
My answer was NO!! to both. Now I get to be based in a region my family is from, where I get to ski on REAL snow, and where I can fly fish without the fear of snagging my line in a pine tree(s).
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
My answer was NO!! to both. Now I get to be based in a region my family is from, where I get to ski on REAL snow, and where I can fly fish without the fear of snagging my line in a pine tree(s).
I'm guessing skywest?? Congrats BTW. I think upgrades there are quicker than most other places right now.