First year FO -- Need some career direction please

Seems like alot of what-ifs to me, but you do seem to have a point: It is a guessing game to an extent.

For those AE guy's sake, I hope you are right about those specific what-ifs. They certainly seem to deserve it.

The question is are you willing to roll the dice either way?
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I would rather move to 3 different regionals in as many years than stay working in my "CUBE" as an Excel Jockey. Of course, I would MUCH rather be at one and a Captain on an EMB-170 in 3 years, which I have noticed HAS happened, but I am not banking on anything. I just wanna fly man! hehe.
 
Upgrade time at Eagle is currently about 8 years.

Upgrade time at Eagle in 1995 was about 8 years.

Upgrade time at Eagle in 1999 was about 2-3 years.

Upgrade time at eagle in 2009 will be ?........
 
pilot602 said:
Never say never ...

United had never filed bankruptcy ... untill they did.

Ozark would "never sell to TWA" ... until they did.

Etc., Etc., Etc.
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I definately understand. I was just trying to suggest that an Eagle FO's job security is not necessarily better in the long term than any of the other regionals...
 
HOPEFULLY, AMR doesn't decide to sent Eagle's flying out for a bid, that would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

HOPEFULLY, the eagle guys and the AA guys can put all of the flying under the same roof and end the lunacy of the regional "portfolio concept". Sorry to step on anyone's toes, but cross-bidding flying amongst five zillion carriers is straight up doofus.

There's not that much movement in the industry now and I'd probably stay put. Now if everyone was hiring due to expansion, all of the majors are picking up pilots left and right, it might be different, but that's not the case.

Upgrade at my employer went from 10 years to 2 years to 15 years back down to about 12 years all within the span of 60 months. And when I was hired, the HR rep said it should be about 8.

And I'm a 9-year FO and close, but can't hold captain. So, theoretically, if i went to Air Tran, for a fast upgrade, last week they said they're curtailing expansion and taking delivery of significantly less aircraft, I'd be on the bottom of the seniority list for a long, long time.

This is just my unchecked opinion, but think you're a little safer at Eagle than most other carriers.
 
I think the advice you've gotten is good, with a real exception. If you could go somewhere where you know for SURE that you will be a Capt on a multi turbine aircraft in short order, it may be worth the shot. Maybe it's a company hiring "street captains", or some such. They do exist, and it could lead to you leapfrogging your regional classmates to a job at a major.

Yes, there is risk, but to me you need to keep your eye on the ball, and if the goal is a major airline job, then consider the risk and go for the PIC time if it's not too excessive.
 
I know of one company hiring street captains, but last I heard they might be losing the mainline contract on some of those aircraft.

The downside of being a street captain (and I learned this from the ones PCL hired a year or two ago), is you're on reserve for an eternity as you watch FOs upgrade and leap frog you. Then again, turbine PIC is golden if you can stand the abuse on reserve at a regional. :)
 
For What It's Worth:

Over the last couple months at Skywest, I've interviewed several Eagle, ASA, Comair, and Trans States pilots; many with 2-3 years at their respective employers. Their reasons? They want quicker upgrades and are tired of the commute.
 
BoDean, since your senior to me i think you should leave eagle. just kidding. i say base your decision on commuting. I wouldn't leave eagle to commute for another regional. then if you have too factor in pay, upgrade time, etc. i can't wait to to be released from san juan and go to LGA. living in base must be sweet.

its all just a crap shot anyway.

adam
 
BoDEAN said:
For those in the business, what are your thoughts and suggestions? Thanks in advance.
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If you haven't asked this question then you need to ask and answer it before you can make a decision.

What do you want to be when you grow up? Or to be more touchy feely about it, where do you see yourself in 5 years, 10 years and 20 years?

If you want to be at a major airline "soon" then I think you do need to take a look at getting PIC turbine sooner. If it's "eventually" then AE may be a way to get there.

Fractionals - as pointed out, most are OK with SIC turbine.

Parachute jumping - go for it.

FedEx - you should have joined the military :-)

Until you know what you want you can't answer the question. Sure, turbine PIC is the holy grail, but if you don't need the holy grail to get where you're going then why bother?

Hope that helps.
 
SkyWChris said:
For What It's Worth:

Over the last couple months at Skywest, I've interviewed several Eagle, ASA, Comair, and Trans States pilots; many with 2-3 years at their respective employers. Their reasons? They want quicker upgrades and are tired of the commute.
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You are one of the interviewers at Skywest? Neat.
Thanks for the advice. I was looking at the 8yr FO payout, and it doesn't go up after the 8th year. I know nothing is for sure in the airlines, but after 8 yrs, if you are still an FO, and the pay never goes up, that would be a harder move out of AE than sometime sooner.

What am I looking for? PIC time, better pay in the long run, not being on reserve for an eternity. Southwest and Continental want a minimum of 1000 PIC Turbine, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon where I am at.
 
BoDEAN said:
What am I looking for? PIC time, better pay in the long run, not being on reserve for an eternity. Southwest and Continental want a minimum of 1000 PIC Turbine, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon where I am at.
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CAL has no such requirement, not sure where you got that info.

As for PIC time, better pay, and not being on reserve, I think you could probably pick another carrier that would allow for that, especially with previous 121 time. I'm not sure how much you're flying, but if you're just meeting monthly guarantee your income is much lower than a guy holding a line.

Hypothetical situation:
Eagle 2nd year FO, reserve: $28,800 gross
"Other carrier", 2nd year FO, 95 hour line holder $39,900 gross (hourly only).

That's a pretty significant difference. That being said if you are sitting on the coach on reserve, flying 5-10 days a month, you are basically making $30k as a part time job. Some people might value that over moving on up the food chain.
 
95 hours/ month?

You know, Lincoln made a speech about that.... :) :sarcasm:
 
Doug Taylor said:
95 hours/ month?

You know, Lincoln made a speech about that.... :) :sarcasm:
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it's credit, counting all that duty/trip rig, DH pay, etc. although I only am ending up with 13-14 days off/month now :( I hear at skywest (whom I was referring to in the post) you are able to credit more (like 110+/month). They have more open time trips.

anyway, welcome to the regionals :)

what was the speech? I'm lost.
 
Doug Taylor said:
The emancipation proclamation, my brotha! ;)
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I think it's a bit hard to compare the route structure of mainline flying (and 100+ seat aircraft) with a feeder (and 50 seat aircraft). Two completely different roles, and schedules, and two completely differnent places in ones' career. There's a reason why a position at a major carrier is more desireable than working at a regional, IMO.

And if you don't want to work 95 credit hours/month, bid the 70-80 hour lines. Thing is, you *might* end up with 1 more day off...
 
Yeah CALs mins are 1000 PIC and 1000 Turbine. They are mutually exclusive requirements. However inorder to get in there without PIC turbine experience, one's dad must be the chief pilot.

Guys have been hired there with:
1000 PIC in singles, and 1000 hrs as an RJ FO
1000 Multi in a piston twin and 1000 turbine in a Caravan (all 135 time)
It is possible you just have to be related to people.

Most of the people getting hired are "retired" military guys at 42-45 and RJ Captains.
 
BoDEAN said:
What am I looking for? PIC time, better pay in the long run, not being on reserve for an eternity. Southwest and Continental want a minimum of 1000 PIC Turbine, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon where I am at.
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As another posted pointed out, in theory, CAL doesn't require PIC turbine.

However - if I were you with your goals - I'd figure out how to leave AE. Try not to jump out of the frying pan into the fire, which might be tricky, but if you want turbine PIC in this decade you pretty much HAVE to leave AE, so figuring out when to jump and to where is going to be the trick. I guess the only good thing you have going is that it's hard to imagine ANYWHERE where the upgrade time is longer than AE. :-)

Good luck - tough choices to make.
 
I'm curious what I would be losing going from say Eagle, to a place like Chautauqua where upgrade times are a lot better, plus they fly the same equipment I am in now. A place like skywest, flys the CRJ, so the training would be all new to me on a new aircraft.
 
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